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this article is excerpted from memories of empire: the new york times’ observations on the late qing dynasty, edited by zheng xiyuan, first published in beijing by sanlian bookstore in may 2001, pages 300-342. the book is a selection of new york times reports on china, covering the period from january 1857 to october 1911.

during this period, china was experiencing a "change that had not happened in a thousand years". it was reduced from an independent and self-reliant eastern empire to the "sick man of east asia". the traditional imperial system and scholar-official politics came to an end. the military, economy, culture and social life underwent a transformation, and the people suffered unparalleled pain.……

the new york times observed and recorded this period of history in a timely, comprehensive and continuous manner, with modern vision and technology that the chinese did not have at the time. the content covered domestic affairs, foreign affairs, national defense, culture, society, revolution and overseas chinese.it constitutes a modern chinese history with a unique perspective.

1896 new york times interview with li hongzhang

on august 28, 1896, li hongzhang, the governor-general of zhili and minister of beiyang, arrived in new york on the tanker "st. louis" and began his visit to the united states. li was received by president cleveland in the united states, and met with some american dignitaries and the public, receiving "unprecedented courtesy" (new york times). reading this interview now still makes my back cold.

when li hongzhang visited the united states in 1896, new york newspapers used li hongzhang's popularity in the united states to promote their advertisements: "li hongzhang never misses the sunday newspaper."

at about 9 a.m. on september 2, li hongzhang was interviewed by reporters at the waldorf astoria hotel in new york. this article is a comprehensive report on the interview by the new york times on september 3, 1896. li's answers were realistic, reasonable, and neither humble nor arrogant.

american reporter: dear sir, you have talked about a lot of things about us. can you tell us what you think we have done poorly?

li hongzhang:i do not want to criticize the united states. i have no complaints about the reception i received from the american government. these are all what i expected. there is only one thing that surprised or disappointed me. that is, there are various political parties in your country, and i only know some of them. will other parties cause chaos in the country? can your newspaper unite the various parties based on national interests?

american reporter: so sir, what interests you most about what you have seen and heard in this country?

li hongzhang:i like everything i see in america. everything makes me happy. what surprises me most is the skyscrapers of 20 floors or more. i have never seen such tall buildings in qing dynasty and europe. these buildings seem to be built very solidly. they can withstand any strong winds, right? but qing dynasty cannot build such high buildings because typhoons will blow them down quickly. in addition, high-rise buildings are not equipped with good elevators like yours, which is also very inconvenient.

american reporter: sir, do you support that ordinary people in your country should receive education?

li hongzhang:our custom is to send all boys to school. (translator interjects: "in the qing dynasty, boys are the real children") we have good schools, but only the children of rich families who can afford the tuition can go to school. children from poor families have no chance to go to school. however, we do not have as many schools and academies as you do now. we plan to build more schools in the country in the future.

american reporter: sir, do you support women's education?

li hongzhang:(pause) in our country, girls are educated by female teachers at home. all families with the financial means will hire female tutors. we do not have public schools for girls, nor higher educational institutions. this is because our customs and habits are different from yours (including europe and the united states). perhaps we should learn from your education system and introduce the one that best suits our national conditions into our country. this is indeed what we need.

american reporter: governor, do you expect any amendments to the existing chinese exclusion act?

li hongzhang:i know that you are going to hold an election again, and the new government will inevitably make some changes in its policies. therefore, i dare not make any remarks calling for the repeal of the geary act before the bill is amended. i just hope that the american press can lend a helping hand to the qing immigrants. i know that newspapers have a great influence in this country, and i hope that the entire press can help the qing expatriates and call for the repeal of the chinese exclusion act, or at least make major amendments to the geary act.

american reporter: sir, can you explain why you chose to return home via canada instead of the western united states? is it because your compatriots were not treated well in some areas of western my country?

li hongzhang:there are two reasons why i don't want to go through the western states of the united states. first, when i was a high-ranking official in a northern port city of the qing dynasty, i heard many complaints from the qing expatriates in california. these complaints showed that the qing people there were not able to obtain the rights granted to them by the us constitution. they asked me to help them to have their us immigration status fully recognized and enjoy the rights they should enjoy as american immigrants. however, your "gurley act" not only does not give them the same rights as immigrants from other countries, but also refuses to protect their legal rights. therefore, i do not want to go through a place that treats my compatriots in this way, and i do not intend to accept the petition submitted by the local chinese representatives requesting that their rights in the western states be guaranteed.

second, when i was still a good sailor, i knew i had to learn to take care of myself. i was much older than others, and the voyage from vancouver to china was shorter than from san francisco. i now know that the qing dynasty's "empress" has a wide and comfortable hull, and it is difficult to find such a good ocean-going passenger ship in all ports in the pacific.

the chinese exclusion act is the most unfair law in the world. all political economists agree that competition drives markets all over the world, and competition applies to both goods and labor. we know that the gurley act was influenced by the irish immigrants who wanted to dominate the california labor market. because the chinese were their strong competitors, they wanted to exclude the chinese. if we in china also boycotted your products, refused to buy american goods, and cancelled your franchise to sell your products to china, how would you feel?

don't think of me as a high official of the qing dynasty, but as an internationalist; don't think of me as a noble, but as an ordinary citizen of the qing dynasty or other countries in the world. please let me ask, what do you gain by driving cheap chinese labor out of the united states? cheap labor means cheaper goods, and customers can buy high-quality goods at low prices.

aren't you very proud of being an american? your country represents the highest modern civilization in the world. you are proud of your democracy and freedom, but your chinese exclusion act is freedom for the chinese? this is not freedom! because you prohibit products produced by cheap labor and do not let them work on farms.

the statistics of your patent office show that you are the most creative people in the world, and you have invented more things than all other countries combined. in this respect, you are ahead of europe. because you do not limit your development to manufacturing, and your agricultural people are not limited to agriculture, but they combine agriculture, commerce and industry. you are not like the british, who are just the workshop of the world. you are committed to all causes of progress and development. in terms of process technology and product quality, you are also ahead of european countries.

unfortunately, you still cannot compete with europe because your products are more expensive than theirs. this is because your labor is too expensive, so the products you produce are too expensive to successfully compete with european countries.

labor is too expensive because you exclude chinese workers. this is your mistake. if you allow labor to compete freely, you will be able to get cheap labor. the chinese are more diligent and thrifty than the irish and other american working classes, so workers of other ethnic groups hate the chinese.

i believe that the american press can lend a helping hand to the chinese by repealing the chinese exclusion act.

american reporter: is there any way for american capital to invest in the qing dynasty?

li hongzhang:only when money, labor and land are organically combined can wealth be created. the qing government is very happy to welcome any capital to invest in our country. my good friend general grant once told me that you must require european and american capital to enter the qing dynasty to establish modern industrial enterprises and help the qing people develop and utilize the country's rich natural resources. but the management rights of these enterprises should be in the hands of the qing government.

we welcome you to invest in china. you can provide the capital and technicians. however, we must control railways, telecommunications and other things ourselves. we must protect our national sovereignty and not allow anyone to endanger our sacred power. i will keep in mind general grant's legacy. all capital, whether american or european, can freely invest in china.

american reporter: sir, do you support introducing american or european newspapers to your country?

li hongzhang:the qing dynasty had newspapers, but unfortunately, the editors of the qing dynasty were unwilling to tell the truth to the readers. they were not like your newspapers that told the truth and only told the truth. the editors of the qing dynasty were very stingy when telling the truth. they only told part of the truth, and they did not have as large a circulation as your newspapers.

by failing to tell the truth honestly, our newspapers have lost the noble value of journalism itself and have failed to become a means of spreading civilization widely.