from “not allowed to leave home” to “not allowed to leave”: how to understand the image of nora today?
2024-08-29
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since the 20th century, "nora" has always been famous in china as the image of a new woman. the symbolic meaning of "nora's runaway" is far greater than the actual action. it was not until a hundred years later that the external situation faced by women was different, and the wind direction also quietly changed. "a hundred years ago, nora was not allowed to leave home; a hundred years later, nora was not allowed to stay away." running away has almost become an unquestionable option, but it has also continued to divide women within the past hundred years. why did women's self-determined "runaway" become a dilemma that restricts women themselves? this requires returning to nora's prototype and the process of her introduction into china during the may fourth movement.
nora is the heroine of a doll's house, a masterpiece by norwegian playwright ibsen. in the play, she is a middle-class housewife who once borrowed money privately to save her husband's illness. many years later, this matter was accidentally revealed, but her husband only cared about his own reputation and angrily accused his wife of being unworthy of being a wife and mother. nora then realized that her eight-year marriage was just a joke, and her husband only regarded her as a "doll" without will. extremely disappointed, she decided to "educate herself" first in order to "become a person", so she abandoned her three children and her husband and left home.
"the purpose of this play is to make people understand the problem thoroughly, rather than to force them to adopt this particular solution in this particular case." scottish drama critic william archer once bluntly stated the significance of the play. in addition to the departure, when the play was performed in europe, it was more touching to question the nature of love and marriage, nora's sincere monologue about family and self, and the many reflections on individual choices. and nora's appearance in china during the may fourth movement was almost a "great shift of heaven and earth".
the new culture male intellectuals represented by hu shi and lu xun made a "desexualization" transformation of nora's image. the "nora spirit" that supported individualism and was not afraid to be hostile to the traditional family once made the may fourth male youths unable to hide their excitement, "regardless of why they left or what happened after leaving, they just left first and talked about it later." these made the right to interpret nora in china seized by men from the very beginning. the male-centered narrative summarized by "human nature" has long dominated the image of nora, making this liberation movement that seemed to be in the name of women not exclusively based on women's own needs from the beginning, and the influence continues to this day. these have attracted the attention of xu huiqi, an associate professor of the department of history at national chengchi university in taiwan.
xu huiqi holds a phd in history from johns hopkins university and is an associate professor in the department of history at national chengchi university. her research expertise includes modern transnational history, modern american history, modern chinese and foreign social and cultural history, women's history, gender and sexuality history, and the history of the republic of china. her representative works include emma goldman, mother earth, and the anarchist awakening, as well as new looks of the old capital: urban consumption in peking from the relocation of the capital to before the anti-japanese war (1928-1937) and "nora in china: the creation and evolution of the new female image, 1900-1930s".
xu huiqi wrote a doctoral dissertation on this topic and published the book "nora in china" in taiwan in 2003. after 20 years, the simplified chinese version of the book has recently been released to mainland readers. through more than 20 years of observation, xu huiqi is increasingly convinced that the crux of china's women's issues since the 20th century is not the social system, but the male-centered thinking. in other words, the biggest problem for modern chinese new women is that they are walking a path provided and guided by men, while also having to face all kinds of unfair criticism from male-centered public opinion. this is particularly prominent in the historical evolution of nora's image.
we interviewed xu huiqi via email, starting with the introduction of a doll's house into china, and continued to talk about the "new and old" struggles among women in recent years, as well as the male-centered narrative logic that has dominated the industry to this day. we found that the "nora question" that was skipped by the chinese a hundred years ago has finally returned. although it has been postponed, this re-enactment is undoubtedly of great significance. from all aspects, this is a key step for this generation of women to try to break away from the framework of the grand narrative.
the following is a conversation between a beijing news reporter and xu huiqi.
"the great shift of the universe":
the nora we are familiar with is not the original her?
beijing news: nowadays, when people in china mention "nora", readers may not think of ibsen first, but may think of lu xun. when nora was introduced to china, how did lu xun, hu shi and other "new youth" at that time transform the image of "nora"?
xu huiqi:yes, this impression of contemporary people clearly reflects the important role played by lu xun and hu shi, new men who led the new cultural trend, in introducing "nora" to china. i personally think that in the historical development of "nora" becoming the image of the new chinese woman, hu shi played the primary role in shaping it, while lu xun was the initiator of this image transformation. in other words, although lu xun introduced ibsen's works in the late qing dynasty, hu shi was the only matchmaker who introduced "nora" to china.
in 1918, the most influential publication of the new culture movement, new youth, published an "ibsen special issue" led by hu shi. among them, hu shi used "nora" as the protagonist to highlight a new ideal of human beings that embodied the essence of ibsenism. this ideal resisted family despotism, advocated individualism, and resisted conservatism. in hu shi's writing, nora's famous sayings of "saving myself" and "being a human being" resounded throughout the new culture, allowing young men and women to find hope.
"nora in china", written by xu huiqi, utopia | shanghai sanlian bookstore, july 2024.
when i was researching nora, i did not realize at first that hu shi was carrying out what i later called the "desexualization" of nora. but when i used a gender perspective to analyze and interpret historical materials, i found that his discourse strategy was a great change, making nora a model of new young men and women. this operation not only made hu shi, a new culture teacher, an advocate and guide of women's rights, but also made the next generation of may fourth youth students become fellow travelers who invited female classmates to "save themselves" together. but in this way, chinese women not only failed to truly master the subjectivity of leading nora's direction, but also remained in a passive position of being guided and called by men. in other words, under hu shi's leadership, the "gender" liberation promoted by nora's initial entry into china was at the cost of replacing and dissolving the uniqueness of "female" liberation.
as for lu xun's contribution to nora's image, it was mainly his speech "what happened after nora left" at beijing women's normal college in 1923 (published in writing the following year), and his novel "sorrows of death" in 1925. the significance of these two texts is that they poured a basin of cold water on the trend of young men and women running away and resisting marriage that was led by hu shi a few years ago. lu xun's thoughts and works on nora were written after the may fourth movement, when the progressive ideological circles tended to lean to the left, class consciousness was budding, and the situation was becoming increasingly chaotic.
stills from the movie "the death of a poet".
i think that lu xun's understanding and reference to "nora" is not limited to chinese women, but also includes all new young men and women. however, when faced with the economic independence issue that lu xun pointed out, women always face more difficult challenges than men. therefore, although it is definitely not only zijun who is hesitant in "sorrowful death", but also her lover junsheng who inspired her to run away and live with him, it is only zijun who was abandoned by junsheng and returned to her father's home sadly that faces a desperate situation.
it is also in this realistic questioning that lu xun reminds young readers that in addition to gathering the courage and motivation to leave, they also need to cultivate the ability and persistence to be independent after leaving. such a reminder appeared in china during the first period of cooperation between the kuomintang and the communist party; it was a transitional period from the women's movement to the women in the movement. lu xun was quite prescient, and to some extent implied that nora's individual departure would sooner or later return home or fall; but if it was a collective departure led by a political party, there might be a bright future. but in this way, nora's fate of leaving has once again become inextricably entangled with the fate of the chinese nation, and cannot be completely controlled by women.
beijing news: when nora was shaped into a symbol of the "new woman", many women at that time swore to resist marriage and emulate nora. in your book, you pointed out that although both were "running away", behind this, the original nora left the "husband's house" and turned into the chinese nora leaving the "father's house". why do we need to pay attention to this change when reviewing this period of history? from leaving the "husband's house" to leaving the "father's house", what are the differences in the focus of the struggle behind this?
xu huiqi:i do think that there is an important and essential difference between the chinese women who left their "father's house" at that time and the original nora who left her "husband's house". in the original nora, nora and helmer should have married because of free love. such a marriage is hard to come by for countless may fourth youth men and women who suffered from arranged marriages. even though nora and her husband experienced free love, they did not necessarily understand what love is. they just tried to play the role of husband and wife recognized by the mainstream society at that time, and had children and lived their lives. through nora's "awakening", ibsen mainly hoped to awaken the victorian middle class to face up to the hypocrisy of their family culture, marriage views and social customs, and hoped that men and women would have the courage to break the status quo and explore their true selves.
stills from the movie "a doll's house".
in the may fourth movement, young men and women who wanted to emulate nora’s spirit of self-help had to escape from their original families before they could enter the marriage that nora had awakened to after eight years. this has made the chinese nora’s escape a step backwards and cannot be compared with the western nora who walked out of marriage. not to mention, social opinion during the republic of china, with very few exceptions, was generally very unfriendly to divorced women.
in conclusion, the chinese nora's departure from her father's house is an act of both men and women fighting against family despotism and striving for personal freedom. it is precisely because leaving her father's house is a common anti-marriage act of young men and women in the republic of china that it has triggered such a huge trend. if only young women took the initiative alone, the act of "leaving her father's house" would surely be easily crushed by social public opinion where the influence of ethics is still strong. therefore, the "collective departure" of young men and women during the may fourth movement was a desexualized anti-ethics performance. young men and women who have left their father's house, even when they are in love, still mostly maintain the social gender psychology of men being the main and women being the subordinate, or men being strong and women being weak. in contrast, the original nora's departure from her husband's house is an act in which women must bear the consequences alone. the implications are very different.
beijing news: based on this, you repeatedly emphasized in your book that the right to interpret nora in china has been seized by intellectual men from the beginning, and has been potentially influenced by the male-centered modern narrative. new culture men often regard women's issues as human or cultural issues, and the influence of this argument continues to this day. can you take nora's departure as an example to talk about the difference between "departure" based on individualism and "departure" based on "women's rights"? in other words, what are the consequences of confusing men's departure with women's departure?
xu huiqi:the question you raised is a discussion i only had in the simplified chinese version of "nora in china". two years ago, editor huang xudong contacted me and expressed his hope that when publishing this book, i would slightly update the preface and conclusion so that this book published 20 years ago would not appear too outdated. but i cherish this publishing opportunity very much, and the theme of my completed new book echoes that of "nora in china", so i seized this opportunity and revised a lot of the content of the old version. among them, the part about the grand narrative of male-centeredness is the most important new argument of the simplified chinese version.
in the old traditional chinese version of "nora in china", i said that this book intends to "explore the interpretation and appropriation of 'nora' by both sexes from the perspective of the power operation of gender politics, so as to further understand the meaning given to the image of the new woman in modern china and the essence of the new woman's discourse." but at that time, i still used biological sex as the standard for examining gender differences. in other words, the gender analysis i conducted has not yet broken away from the framework based on the differences in the physiological characteristics of men and women.
over the past few years, my research on the history of modern sino-foreign exchanges has focused mostly on male elites, because they were indeed the leaders of the discourse on gender, marriage, and sexual morality in china during the republic of china period, especially before the 1930s. i found that many women or gender historians, like me, often regard progressive men as research objects and conduct feminist analysis, comments, and even criticism. but i gradually discovered that such a research approach can easily lead people to maintain the misunderstanding of gender differences and even strengthen people's unpleasant image of men oppressing women.
in fact, all traditional patriarchal systems in history, or modern male-centered societies, have countless women (whether actively or passively) who have colluded with them. and this value of maintaining male superiority on the road to promoting gender equality is what i call the male-centered modern narrative. looking back at the gender cultural transformation at the turn of the 19th and 20th centuries, many european and american women and gender historians have pointed out that male sexologists who seemed to lead the progressive trend at the time mostly replaced "women's emancipation" with "sexual liberation." the difference between the two is similar to the difference between "'running away' to promote individualism" and "'running away' based on 'women's rights'".
when we confuse women's running away with men's running away, people only see the desires and needs of people who take men as the prototype of human beings. just like hu shi, he promoted the spirit of individualism through his explanation of nora's characteristics, and never took into account women's unique physiological conditions, relative gender disadvantages, and economic disadvantages. the consequence of the development of this kind of discourse is to continue the existing male-centered values that take men as the prototype of human beings and male characteristics as superior gender temperament. women can only strive to pursue the value of becoming a "social person" like men. but at the same time, they can hardly get rid of the heavy responsibility of "family members" that men can easily relieve.
nora's response:
differences in the reactions of chinese and western societies to a doll's house
beijing news: next, let’s go back to the situation when this drama was first introduced into china.
the discussion that a doll's house sparked when it was performed in europe was actually different from that in china. for example, nora's psychological activities before "going out", the decision of whether to "give up motherhood", and the moral double standards of the middle class at that time, all of these were filtered out when nora entered china in the 20th century. can you elaborate on what other differences in the feedback from the audiences in the two places at that time impressed you? how did this difference affect nora's image in china afterwards?
xu huiqi:at that time, i found from the research of foreign scholars that when a doll's house was performed in europe, it caused various heated controversies. according to the chinese historical materials i collected at that time, i found that the discussions around the play and nora's performance in chinese and western societies were quite different. this fully illustrates how cultural and national differences can affect and influence the public's views on marriage, gender relations and gender roles.
in my opinion, the difference between the reaction of chinese and western societies to a doll's house depends largely on how the public is exposed to the work. the masses in european and american societies (mostly the upper-middle class) mainly go to the theater to watch the play on their own. however, the acceptance of the play in chinese society is mostly filtered through the progressive male elite. new culture leaders such as hu shi and lu xun gave the play the meaning they believed to be inspiring to the chinese people through their understanding and interpretation of nora's words and deeds.
subsequently, the chinese society, many of whom were amateur middle school or university students, began to perform the drama a doll's house. in short, we can say that the european and american public, mostly as audiences, directly contacted or accepted nora, while the chinese public, more as readers, indirectly contacted or understood nora. this key difference led to the chinese society's understanding of a doll's house and nora's performance being basically dominated/hijacked by the new cultural male elites. they drew elements from the play that they felt were important and spread them through progressive newspapers and periodicals.
the scene of the drama "a doll's house 2: return of nora" produced by zhang ziyi.
the issues discussed by european and american audiences at that time around nora were diverse and their positions varied greatly. this is why i mentioned in my book that at that time, some families even had to hang a sign saying "please do not discuss nora" when hosting a banquet to avoid guests' disagreements and affecting the harmonious atmosphere. it is not difficult to imagine that the european middle class, in the 19th century gender culture where men were distinguished from women outside, was shocked by nora's decision to leave home with three children.
because, from the perspective of the ideal male and his characteristics of the middle class at that time, helmer's performance was not too "excessive". as the head of the family, he had to defend his reputation and morality. on the contrary, nora, as a housewife, was naturally considered by european society at that time to be a family angel and a supporter of her husband; sacrificing for the family was her duty. therefore, even if some viewers can understand her mentality of leaving home because she wants to be herself, they cannot necessarily accept such a decisive choice.
on the contrary, the opportunity for a doll’s house and nora to enter china was created by the new cultural men who wanted to awaken the chinese people. this difference crucially determined the chinese public’s single understanding of a doll’s house (that is, almost all the focus was on nora’s escape) and the direction of nora’s image in china in the future.
a doll's house movie poster.
beijing news: indeed, looking back at the first half of the 20th century, we will notice that there were many female characters that entered china at the same time as nora. for example, joan of arc, an important figure in the hundred years' war between england and france, and "lady of the camellias" written by alexandre dumas, etc. these female characters also showed their own "revolutionary" nature at the time. why was it "nora" that finally caused a sensation at the time? can we understand that, rather than saying that "nora" entered china at that time, it is better to say that the chinese people at that time took the initiative to move towards "nora"?
xu huiqi:that's right. many chinese and foreign scholars have revealed that since the late qing dynasty, many outstanding western female images (whether real people or protagonists of works, etc.) have been introduced into china. joan of arc's bravery and patriotism are quite suitable for the revolutionary momentum in the late qing dynasty. as i said in my book, the lady of the camellias was praised by people in the late qing dynasty as a female image with sacrificial virtues. however, these two, or other foreign female images that were translated and introduced in the atmosphere of self-reliance and national salvation in the late qing dynasty, were not entirely appropriate when the may fourth movement, which was mainly based on enlightenment, was introduced. as i mentioned in the previous question, most chinese people at that time actually knew nora indirectly. based on this, i would say that it was the new cultural male elites who had studied abroad at that time who took the initiative to discover and call on the chinese people to move towards nora.
beijing news: you also mentioned in the book that this is related to the budding of female consciousness at the social level in the late qing dynasty and early republic of china. in your opinion, what are the similarities and differences between the female consciousness awakening in china during this period and the female consciousness prevalent in europe at the same time? looking back now, what opportunities and pitfalls does this budding itself contain?
xu huiqi:many excellent chinese and foreign academic works on women and gender history in modern china have highlighted that the budding of women's consciousness in the late qing dynasty and early republic of china, or the emergence of feminist thought in the late qing dynasty, was closely related to the critical situation of the country's survival. this indeed reflects the differences in the development of women's subjectivity in modern europe and the united states and china.
first, the leaders of the promotion of women's consciousness in europe and the united states were white intellectual women of the upper middle class; later, it gradually expanded to women of different races and classes. in china, the pioneers were missionaries and reformist men in the late qing dynasty. it is true that women who studied in japan, such as qiu jin, chen xiefen and he xiangning, actively promoted women's rights through founding magazines, organizing and running schools. but the people who really made it a topic that the progressive camp in the late qing dynasty gradually took seriously were still the intellectual men with great ideological influence, such as liang qichao. in the early 20th century, new women who received higher education, were independent and had professional skills, began to occupy a place in society. in china at the same time, those who talked about women's rights were mainly fighting for women's ability and opportunities to contribute to the country and society, rather than fighting for their own rights and freedom like western feminists.
the development of chinese feminism since the 20th century cannot avoid the historical fact that it was stimulated by national discourse but also restricted by its framework. this is exactly the "opportunity" and "trap" pointed out in your question. this development model of the feminist movement has benefited chinese men and even many women, but it is also the dilemma that women and feminism still face today.
"nara's question":
the problem that was skipped a hundred years ago is back
beijing news: to this day, nora's image is still deeply rooted in people's hearts, but the trend has changed. you also noticed in the introduction that if you say "a hundred years ago, nora was not allowed to leave home; a hundred years later, (nora) is not allowed to leave."
this change in the wind has led to the division between the old and new female groups in china and the narrowing of women's choices in recent years. looking back now, we may be surprised to find that the questions that were skipped a hundred years ago - "why did nora run away?" and "was it necessary for nora to run away" - have to be faced again today. why are these questions being raised again today? what position do they occupy in the history of the women's movement?
xu huiqi:contemporary people tend to have a linear impression of various progressive thoughts and movements; that is, they are all progressive over time. of course, many people also know that this is not the case. the history of women's movement in china over the past century, or the history of women's growth, is a contradictory development process that has been continuously driven and constrained by various external forces (dominated by men).
a hundred years ago, chinese people had no chance to ask “why or whether nora had to leave”. what kind of growth have chinese women and men experienced in the past hundred years?
stills from the movie "jeanne dielman".
after the 1950s, although the development of women on both sides of the taiwan strait was not exactly the same, they experienced the overall dominant women's work/movement, and the stage of creating a new wave of new women (ism) or multi-gender movement inspired by european and american feminist thoughts. at first glance, contemporary intellectual women are obviously more socially competitive than a hundred years ago. they have education, professional skills, economic capabilities, international vision, legal resources, social networks, and fertility/contraceptive technology that traditional women do not have. but modern women, having a job does not mean that they can be completely economically independent; being single does not mean that there is no overwhelming social pressure from relatives and friends. even if they find a partner they love and marry, it does not mean that their family responsibilities can be shared fairly.
although there are maternity leave and other allowances for childbirth, it does not mean that her promotion and career will not be affected. married working women are often exhausted by the various demands of their parents' home, husband's home, husband and children. the exhaustion and hard work of playing multiple roles in society, work and family may not be imaginable for chinese women who were mostly housewives a hundred years ago. in the face of these new developments, new changes and new challenges, do women need to express themselves by running away? the answer may be a matter of opinion. different reasons lead different women to choose to leave their marriages, "be themselves" or "educate themselves".
as for why the chinese took a long time to face the issues related to nora's departure in the original version, perhaps it should be said that chinese women have made some progress in breaking away from the framework of the grand narrative! chinese women are given the opportunity to be "people" like men. many historical, anthropological and sociological studies have long shown that such a path of liberation is unfair and destructive to "women" and "sex" (including women's physiological functions and social gender characteristics). after the reform and opening up, it seems that women have been able to break free from the desexualized identity of being iron girls, but the lingering traditional gender values are still with them.
i think nora's determination to educate herself and become a person is still relevant in contemporary china. perhaps we can regard "nora's question" as an inspiration for chinese women to break through the web of progress and rights given to them, face up to their own desires, and become the "masters" of their own marriages and lives.
beijing news: in recent years, one of the hot topics within feminism is how women deal with the complexity of being "both new and old" in themselves. you mentioned in your book that this actually also existed in china in the first half of the 20th century. the speed of self-liberation and change of the people at the social level was different, creating "women with new ideas and old morals" and making many old-fashioned women victims. this also indirectly led to "both new women and old women becoming captives of men." can you elaborate on this observation and how you view the so-called "new and old" division among women?
xu huiqi:i find the most annoying thing about women is that those traits that are considered "new and old" are largely based on male-centered perspectives and standards! why doesn't society use similar standards to view men? back then, the new cultural champions who sang about free love were all men who followed their parents' arranged marriages and even married concubines to enjoy the happiness of multiple people. "inconsistency between words and deeds" has almost become a common characteristic of modern intellectual men who advocate feminism or women's liberation.
in the manuscript of my new book, i elaborated on this strategy of dividing the female group into new and old, which is a manifestation of the misogynistic consciousness of male-centered theorists. scholars have pointed out that misogynists (regardless of gender) often like to use the divide and rule tactic, praising and winning over the women (groups) they approve of, while criticizing and punishing the women (groups) they do not agree with.
indeed, the distinction between the old and new women during the republic of china was not only about their attitude towards marriage, but also about their education level, ideological vision, professional skills, and physical fitness (for example, not binding feet or breasts). however, one of the most criticized points of the so-called old-fashioned women at that time by the new cultural people was that they adhered to the concept of chastity. since the 1920s, many male intellectuals who support feminism have criticized many women for having new ideas and old morals. among them, they complained that the new women clearly accepted the idea of freedom of love, but when they met the wrong person, they were sad and wanted to commit suicide. why? men who would say this clearly lack empathy and cannot empathize with the serious physiological shocks and moral backlash that women may encounter in the process of practicing "free love" sexual union. however, in fact, it is difficult for women, whether new or old, to get rid of the internalized psychology of examining themselves with male-centered values.
stills from the movie "jeanne dielman".
beijing news: for a long time, feminism has been fighting against a "male narrative", but the deeper "male-centered narrative" has rarely been noticed. why is the latter more difficult to discover? and you also pointed out in your book that the crux of women's issues is not capitalism or socialism, but the male-centered system and thinking. why do you say that?
xu huiqi:i am glad you asked this question. there is a crucial and important difference between male-centered narrative and masculine narrative. in the simplest definition, male narrative is the speech and discussion of men; male-centered narrative is a narrative style centered on male experience, perspective and values. the male "sex" in the concept of male-centeredness does not only refer to biological men, but also includes male gender characteristics that are promoted to represent universal human values, such as rationality, autonomy, strength, responsibility and adventurous spirit.
this means that male-centered narratives, in addition to men’s speeches, often also include women’s speeches that identify with male characteristics. if feminism only knows how to fight against the explicit misogyny of certain male narratives that affirm men and devalue women, but ignores identifying the implicit misogyny revealed by male-centered narratives that express support for feminism while criticizing the performance of women they do not agree with, then the current situation of gender inequality will only continue.
paradoxically, many feminist discourses in modern china belong to male-centered narratives. whether it is the female revolutionaries in the late qing dynasty, or the female comrades who devoted themselves to the great cause of the chinese communist party’s revolution, or even the professional women who are ashamed of the performance of modern women, they often express male-centered values, and expect their female compatriots to be self-reliant and self-reliant. male-centered narratives do not oppose gender equality; because gender equality only allows women to have the rights that men already have. gender equality does not (always) mean that men need to give up their existing power and advantages; nor does it mean that women’s weaknesses (physiological conditions and social gender characteristics) and their natural duties (housework, caring for the elderly and children, etc.) that have always been recognized will disappear; it does not mean that women have the freedom to do whatever they want. perhaps it is precisely under the paradoxical development of china’s male-centered narrative that has never been challenged in the past century that nora’s call to save herself and be a person can still resonate with many women.
i think that the development of modern history has roughly proved that no matter what kind of society, if the male-centered values are not shaken, various demands for legal protection of women's rights will be difficult. because, although national constitutions, government legislation, and institutional reforms are important for protecting women's rights, the social mechanism dominated by men in power and the value of men being strong and women being weak can still lead to various deviations that are unfavorable to women when they are implemented. not to mention that allowing women to strive for opportunities to do what men do, although it gives them more room for development, it may reversely strengthen the value of society's recognition of male characteristics.
in addition, during the research of "nora in china", i realized that the women's liberation movement often focuses on women's rights and performance in the public sphere, but ignores the family, which is the core that should be changed most when implementing gender equality. to a certain extent, this focus of the movement, which pays more attention to the public sphere and relatively ignores the private sphere, somewhat repeats the male-centered thinking of valuing the public over the private (which is extended to valuing men over women). the value of family/housework, which has been regarded as the primary activity space for women, the field of gender role playing and the expression of gender characteristics since ancient times, has not been enhanced because women have fought for activities in the public sphere that is exclusively for men. to this day, the family is still regarded by most people as a natural duty that women need to take care of no matter how capable they are. the double burden (double shift) of modern women in the public and private spheres exists in both capitalist and socialist countries.
an elder once told me that in many mainland families, women are actually the head of the family; wives don't cook or even take care of children. this may be a common situation, but it cannot cover up the fact that in china or other societies, there is still a general trend that favors men in terms of housework, education content, career advancement, and role-playing (conflicting or not). i think it is the male-centered values that affirm male characteristics, value public over private, and believe that society is above family that shackle women.
return to a doll's house:
while liberating women, we also liberate men
beijing news: let's get back to this book. "nora in china" was first published in 2003, and was originally based on your doctoral dissertation while studying at the graduate school of history at national chengchi university in taiwan. how did you first pay attention to this character? in other words, among the various narratives about "nora", what was the origin that first aroused your research interest?
xu huiqi:yes, the first edition of this book was my doctoral dissertation when i graduated from the department of history at national chengchi university in 2001. the title has not changed. the theme of my master's thesis was western liberal feminism in the late 18th century. when i started to think about research topics and fields after i started my doctoral program, i felt that perhaps the history of the exchange of gender ideas between china and foreign countries in modern times would be more suitable for me to study and develop in taiwan rather than in europe and the united states, rather than pure western history.
later, i read in a book about modern chinese history that the author mentioned "nora" and her influence on the may fourth new culture movement as a new female image. such a brief description aroused my interest. i think "nora", who was shaped as a new female image by people at that time, is a good topic for conducting research on gender history in modern china and foreign countries. since then, i have begun to pay attention to and explore historical materials, as well as previous research on nora or modern chinese new women.
if i recall the origin of my research on nora, i would say that i really wanted to understand why this heroine of a western play could spark so much discussion and exert influence in chinese society during the republic of china period. at that time, my research focus was more on combing and analyzing the development and evolution of nora as a new female image in the republic of china society after the may fourth movement. at about the beginning, i noticed that the chinese at that time paid great attention to nora's "running away". i also gradually realized that the focus of the early western society's discussion on nora was significantly different from that of chinese readers. this difference made me feel that it was a good perspective to explore the exchange of gender ideas between china and foreign countries in modern times.
beijing news: i am very curious, have you watched the entire play in the theater? where did you watch it at that time, and what were your personal feelings?
xu huiqi:in fact, i watched the adaptation of "nora" by a german director in taipei in 2006, after i had already completed my dissertation and published it as a book. the play was performed entirely by german actors in german, and the ending was changed from nora walking out of the house to her shooting her husband helmer. after watching the play, i wrote in my diary that i preferred the ending of ibsen's original work.
when i was teaching later, i chose to show the 1973 british film "a doll's house" starring claire bloom and anthony hopkins for students to watch and discuss. i personally like this film version that is quite faithful to the original, perhaps because i do prefer open endings. it feels like it gives both the hero and heroine a chance to change themselves.
a doll's house movie poster.
beijing news: for today's readers, what else do you think is worth thinking about about the image of "nora"?
xu huiqi:just as male elites like hu shi gave nora desexualized traits a hundred years ago, i believe that readers today, both men and women, can still gain inspiration from nora's transgender nature. in a contemporary society where male-centered values continue to prevail, the biggest contradiction is probably that many men feel mentally castrated when they see women being empowered and their own power is weakened.
the more independent women are, the less important men seem, which deprives men of the sense of superiority they can enjoy as the head of the family in marriage and family. the increasing number of men and their deepening sense of weakness (compared to the advantages they enjoyed in the past) have in turn stimulated a strong misogyny. in fact, the historical burden and pressure of men may be ignored by many feminists. i think if women can also understand that "it's not easy to be a man", perhaps the feminist advocacy of gender equality and appropriate development will be more supported by men.
i think the true meaning of feminism is not only to fight for formal equality between men and women, but also to reset the male/female characteristics and gender relations. let men have the opportunity to adapt to their nature and not always have to bear the burden of living like a man. i often feel that it is the expectation of "must be a masculine man" (often imposed by fathers on their sons at home) that makes many men feel suffocated and turn to hate women.
from the perspective that women's liberation actually involves men's liberation, "a doll's house" may not only hope to fight for the opportunity for women like nora to awaken and be independent, but also intends to liberate men like helmer, unload the stereotyped burden of victorian middle-class husbands, and rethink what kind of person they want to be.
from this perspective of mutual assistance and empathy between the sexes, we can say that this is an image that can still inspire both men and women to "step out of their comfort zone." if helmer had not revealed his "true colors" for some reason, nora, who had played the role of a good wife and mother for eight years, would not have been stimulated to decide to educate herself and become a real person. similarly, if nora had not "awakened," helmer would not have been told how big the problem was with his marriage, and even with himself. ibsen did not write a fatal ending for the two, perhaps intending to use nora's behavior to give both her and helmer a chance to start a new life.
stills from the movie "a doll's house".
beijing news: finally, you once clearly stated: "it is not enough for women to leave, men must also return home." why is the latter also necessary?
xu huiqi:this judgment appears in the conclusion of my new version. this sentence is indeed a summary of some of my experiences in the past twenty years of research and thinking. as in the answer to the previous question, i deeply feel that the family is a key issue that feminists need to spend more effort to deal with in order to break through the blind spot of the male-centered "feminist theory". if we don't get to the heart of the matter, loosen the family roles and housework responsibilities imposed on women, and reverse the gender hierarchy of male and female values, then any request for women to develop in the public sphere will be like looking for fish in a tree.
from the perspective of gender, we can reflect on the meaning of "running away": it can be said that men are allowed to develop a "long-term running away" mentality towards their families. they are educated and expected to earn money to support the family and become the head of the family; they are also expected and allowed to focus their lives on work and public activities. this is not necessarily the life that every man wants. some men want to spend more time with their children and share housework with their wives at home; but his boss and colleagues seem to take it for granted that he should focus on work. in fact, many men often cannot be themselves. nora's ambition of "i want to see whether i am wrong or the world is wrong" can indeed inspire contemporary men and women, and bravely resist the society's stereotyped gender view of "men should behave like this (behave) and women should behave like that (behave)".
"nora in china" recounts various male-centered narratives that require chinese women to leave home. among them, we do witness the various superior performances of many women after entering society. however, those women who advocate leaving home based on their identification with male-centered values either have servants at home to help with housework and take care of children, or they put the (still male-centered) self first, despise the value of the family (and the implicit female) and require women to enter society to contribute.
in short, women cannot solve the problem of gender inequality simply by leaving the family. i advocate "letting men go home", which broadly includes letting men put their minds back to the family (reversing the advantages and disadvantages of the public and private sectors that emphasize society over family), facing up to their family roles (husband, father, son-in-law, etc.), taking on family work, cultivating family virtues, and managing family relationships.
if this is not the case, even if contemporary women continue to ask “why and whether to leave”, they will still not be able to truly solve the problem.
interview and writing/shen lu
edit/walk
proofreading/xue jingning
