Dialogue｜Zuo Anjun
2024-08-16
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"Music and Rage" is an album released by the Beyond band in May 1993. Not long after the album was released, on June 24, 1993, Huang Jiaju accidentally fell off the stage while recording a variety show in Tokyo, Japan, causing serious injuries and eventually died on June 30. "Music and Rage" became the last album of the four members of Beyond.
Album cover of "Music and Fury"
On the 30th anniversary of Huang Jiaju's death and the 40th anniversary of the establishment of the Beyond band, the poet Zuo Anjun published the book "Music and Rage: The Biography of Beyond". In the book, Zuo Anjun collected, sorted and studied a large number of documents, interviewed more than a dozen participants and witnesses of Beyond's history, and discovered a large number of little-known stories, comprehensively, systematically and objectively showing the tortuous history of Beyond from its founding to its popularity and disbandment. On June 15, 2024, Zuo Anjun and Beyond's golden partner, lyricist Liu Zhuohui, writer and scholar Yang Zao, and poet and writer Yang Biwei held a sharing session around this new book and Beyond's music, rock spirit of peace and love and other topics. On this basis, Zuo Anjun and Yang Biwei had a more in-depth conversation.
On June 15, 2024, at the Beijing Fangsuo, the new book sharing event of "Music and Rage: The Biography of Beyond" was held. Zuo Anjun is the second from the right and Yang Biwei is the first from the right.
Yang Biwei:Hello An Jun, congratulations again on the publication of your book "Music and Rage: Beyond". This is a great joy for Beyond fans (including me). As far as I know, you were influenced by Beyond when you were in middle school, but the music you usually listened to was not limited to Beyond, but also included Pink Floyd, Dire Straits, Nightwish, U2, etc. Why did you choose Beyond as the focus of your writing and were willing to spend ten years of time and energy on it?
Zuo Anjun:Beyond's music was a strong spiritual support for me, and I have a sense of gratitude towards them. Before I saw those unreadable articles and the book about Ka Kui, I actually had no plan to write about Beyond, and I had never even thought about writing about any band. The idea of writing "Music and Rage: The Biography of Beyond" first came to me because I saw the book about Ka Kui. To put it bluntly, such a book cannot be called a book, and it can even be said to be a shame for publication. As far as Beyond's influence, original contribution, and spiritual symbolism are concerned, they should not be presented to us in such a low-quality text, so I decided to write one myself. On the other hand, around 2014, there were very few serious, systematic, and in-depth articles and books about Beyond, so I felt that my writing was particularly necessary.
Initially, I did not expect that this biography would take so long to complete. As a biography based on historical facts, the workload of absorbing and transforming relevant documents and my interviews was very huge, far beyond my initial expectations. But since I have already started, I can only keep writing. In the process of creation, the more errors I found, the more I strengthened my sense of responsibility. I feel that I should be responsible for the history of Beyond, for myself, and for the readers. On the other hand, as a novice writer other than poetry, I still had many shortcomings in all aspects. Especially as my knowledge continued to grow, looking back on the past, I always found many unsatisfactory areas, so I had to stop and revise and polish them repeatedly.
In the process of writing "Music and Rage: The Biography of Beyond", my interest was further aroused. I also planned to write or translate books about other bands, but these plans are very large and I will put them on the agenda when I have the chance.
"Music and Rage: Beyond", Nanjing University Press, December 2023 edition
Yang Biwei:When I was reading this book, I could feel your steadfastness, seriousness and sense of responsibility. Your answer just now further confirmed my judgment. You have indeed been "responsible for the history of Beyond, for yourself, and for the readers". I also noticed that you spent a lot of time writing about Ka Kui, and even dedicated this book to Ka Kui and the future. So, what kind of existence is Ka Kui to you? What kind of Ka Kui do you want readers to know through this book? In the process of writing, has your understanding of Ka Kui changed? Have you made any different discoveries?
Zuo Anjun:In terms of music, Ka Kui is of course a genius. He has lofty musical ideals and pursuits. His positive, optimistic, hardworking, resolute and persistent character is a very important foundation for the band's success. I certainly have my own understanding of Ka Kui in my mind, but I did not deliberately shape Ka Kui into a certain image, especially when writing based on historical facts. Sometimes writing does not provide readers with answers, but provides clues to obtain answers. In the end, readers need to taste, think and judge for themselves. In general, Ka Kui, like many people, has both complexity and diversity, and both advantages and disadvantages, which are all shown in the book. Before 1993, whether in terms of creative ability, contributed works, or even thoughts and team cohesion, Ka Kui was undoubtedly the core figure of Beyond. His position in the band determined the amount of ink he poured into it.
In fact, the process of creation is a process of deepening and changing understanding. If I had a comprehensive and profound understanding of Ka Kui or Beyond at the beginning, I might not have written this biography. But there is one point that is worth emphasizing, that is, Beyond's spirit of daring to try and break through. All the members of Beyond are self-taught and not professionally trained. At the beginning, they did not know how to write music, and even later they still could not read the five-line music. But when they began to try to create, they learned to use simple methods to mark chords, recorded the creation process with a recorder, and slowly polished it. Later, they gradually learned to use simple music notation to record melodies. It is precisely because they are not professionally trained that they are not burdened by theories, their thoughts are not imprisoned, and they dare to try and break through, which is why they have created so many outstanding works.
Today, many people may find music creation difficult, but this is actually due to fear or lack of understanding of the history of music. If you know something about folk songs and mountain songs, you will find that many of them are actually produced by working people in the process of working and falling in love. They can even make up a song at will. They can't compose or read music, but it doesn't prevent them from creating songs that people love. Of course, good works require the combined efforts of talent, ideas, and professional reserves, which are not possessed by everyone. But what I want to say is that many times it is precisely because of inability and dissatisfaction that we have the drive to surpass ourselves or others.
Yang Biwei:What you said reminded me of literary creation. There is a saying in our Chinese department that "academics are a harm to literature (creation)". Although this saying is meant to be sarcastic, it is also worth reflecting on where the problem is. I have seen in some people that if they cannot get out of academic thinking when creating, the effect is often counterproductive. Professionalism is a double-edged sword. Sometimes it will restrict people's free expression.
OK, let's continue. There are two hidden threads in this book that interest me. The first one is also related to literature, that is, your focus on lyrics. You think that not being good at writing lyrics is one of the shortcomings of Beyond in its early days. From what I have read, few people have paid attention to this issue before. As a poet who is naturally sensitive to words, how do you view the relationship between the musicality and literary nature of a song? If there is room for improvement in Beyond's early lyrics, who else in the Hong Kong music scene of the same period do you think has lyrics worth learning from?
Zuo Anjun:A song can actually be both musical and literary at the same time. The main way to express musicality is through melody and arrangement, not the rhythm of lyrics. Of course, the rhythm of lyrics will also affect the melody to some extent, but this is not the main thing. The literary quality of a song is mainly expressed through language, that is, lyrics. Word choice, rhetoric, poetic paradox, etc. can all enhance the literary quality of a song. Regardless of whether the lyrics or the music are written first, the musicality and literary quality of a song will affect each other, but they do not determine each other's fate. Every song can find one or even multiple appropriate singing methods and forms of expression. If a song is not good enough, it must be because it has not found the right expression. Of course, this depends on the creator's talent, creativity, professional level, etc.
I think music, including any other art category, has another very important thing, that is, ideological quality. The so-called pop songs are mainly due to the lack of literary quality and ideological quality, which is obviously due to the lack of the creators themselves. There are also some lyrics that sound beautiful and fresh, and you may like them more in middle school, but as we break free from the barriers of thought, vision, and taste, we will find that those lyrics are nothing more than a pile of flashy words and have no connotation at all. In a sense, literary quality can be forged, but ideological quality cannot. In China, sound fragments may be a model of a good combination of musicality, literary quality, and ideological quality. Although some of Zuo Xiaozuo's lyrics tend to be colloquial and sometimes even seem casual, they can still be used as a benchmark. Although some of Beyond's lyrics are not very literary, as a whole piece of music, they are generally appropriate, which is rare.
There are many good lyrics in Beyond's generation, but every band and every singer has their own lyrics. Bands and singers cannot interchange or appropriate each other's lyrics because their temperaments and styles are different. For example, the lyrics written by James Huang are very good, but they are not suitable for all singers or bands. Therefore, I think it is more important to improve the level of the creators or teams themselves and find the music expression that suits them.
Yang Biwei:Therefore, at any time, "adaptability" is important: musicality, literary quality, ideological adaptation; the adaptation of the work to the author's temperament... You said that Zuo Xiaozuo "can be used as a benchmark", and I agree with this. The first time I heard his songs in high school, I laughed for a long time, because he provided an aesthetic experience different from others, and it contained ironic logic. Later, I saw him live at a music festival. He is a person who has a serious pursuit of music. I think that "randomness" is closely related to the ironic logic in his creative mechanism: because of seriousness, it is ironic; because of irony, it needs to be deconstructed, so it appears "random", and even deliberately creates a sense of "randomness". Here, "randomness" is no longer an aesthetic disease, but a valuable creativity. It is precisely with this self-consistent and self-proven logic that the musical characteristics of Zuzhou can be established and highlighted.
Let's talk about the second hidden thread. You have always been concerned about the game between Beyond's rock ideals and market choices. This process is actually a two-way choice between creators and public acceptance, but it is rarely noticed. Why do you attach importance to this point? How do you think Ka Kui and Beyond perform in this regard?
Zuo Anjun:The process of Beyond's game with the market is actually the process of the band's mentality and thinking transformation. Paying attention to this game can better understand their changes in music and actions. In the two or three years from 1989 to 1991, although the band made great compromises and changes, they did not have false works and always maintained sincerity, which is the basis of the vitality of the band's works. From the beginning of 1992 to June 1993 before Ka Kui's death, the band's musical quality was sublimated in compromise, but it also made them tired. After Ka Kui's death, Beyond's game with the market is still going on, and more often it even manifests itself as anti-commercial, so it has gained more space for free expression. There are many excellent works in the era of the three sons, and even after the band members went solo, but unfortunately, Beyond in the post-Ka Kui era did not create more widely circulated works.
Yang Biwei:"Beyond in the post-Ka Kui era did not create more widely circulated works." This statement is really accurate! You used the word "widely circulated", which is an evaluation from the perspective of dissemination rather than the quality of the works. Throughout the book, your expression is also objective, calm and restrained. In fact, poets are often good at lyricism, even sensationalism, but you did not rely on the characteristics and advantages of poetry writing in the writing of this book. What prompted you to adopt this writing style?
Zuo Anjun:I have read too many false, sensational and exaggerated texts, which is not my style. I hope to present a true and objective history and show Beyond in three dimensions. I have always considered myself an admirer, researcher and supporter of Beyond, not a fanatical fan. Only fanaticism can move oneself in writing, while calmness requires a kind of courage and mentality to look straight ahead. I believe that only by calmly examining can we fully recognize and understand Beyond and its works. Moderation may be a habit inherited from poetry creation. There is already enough nonsense and even language garbage in this world. I don’t want to add the burden of language in my writing. I think I should remove those unnecessary things and try to be concise.
Yang Biwei:In a previous conversation at Beijing Fangsuo, I said that your book is academic. Now I would like to add: In fact, you have raised the research of Beyond to a new academic level by your own efforts. Beyond does not lack fans, but it lacks sincere, serious and capable researchers. And you are such a researcher, and you have made a good start. What is rare is that the serious academic attitude does not prevent readers from getting close to this book. I believe that reading "Music and Rage: The Biography of Beyond" will first make readers feel close. This book can help people understand the real Beyond and actively trigger readers' thinking. Since we are talking about academics, let's talk about the three members of Beyond. Beyond during the three-member period is also part of the entire history of Beyond; the "post-three-member era" (a term I invented), that is, after the three members went solo, their respective works are actually quite distinctive. For example, "On the Peak" can be said to fully demonstrate the rock ideals of Paul and Liu Zhuohui. But Ka Kui's halo still obscured the efforts of the three members to a certain extent. It seems that no one has systematically sorted out and compared the works of the three members after Ka Kui. This kind of regret can only be made up by time. In addition to the existing content in this book, do you have anything else to add about the three sons?
Zuo Anjun:In the post-Ka Kui era, the three Beyond members worked very hard. They contributed their due talents in every stage. It was also because of their efforts that the influence of Beyond was able to continue and expand. Being obscured may be the fate of the three Beyond members in the post-Ka Kui era. In a certain sense, they have never been able to surpass the Ka Kui era. In addition, Ka Kui's unexpected death has added a lot of mystery, which has made countless fans feel sorry and miss him deeply. People always consciously or unconsciously focus on the Ka Kui era, thus ignoring the three Beyond members. The three Beyond members' era is certainly not bad. Their lyrics are more straightforward and self-centered, and the arrangements are more diverse, but the melodies and arrangements are not as distinctive as those in the Ka Kui era, and are not easy to be remembered by the audience. The popularity is far less than that in the Ka Kui era. In terms of voice, the three Beyond members' singing is not as recognizable and infectious as Ka Kui's. People always compare the three Beyond members' era with the Ka Kui era, which is inevitable. Unless they create works that are more shocking and popular than the Ka Kui era in the name of Beyond, they can get rid of the shadow of the Ka Kui era. Just like after Syd Barrett, the lead singer of Pink Floyd, left the band, the band created great albums such as "Dark Side of the Moon" and "The Wall" and no longer had to live under Barrett's shadow. Later, Paul formed new bands many times, which was an effort to get rid of the shadow of Beyond and Ka Kui.
The album "Back Seat on the Second Floor" released by Sanzi Times
In fact, there is another very important point: the core of the band during the Three Sons era was not very clear. Paul and Ka Keung were always competing with each other. After Ka Kui passed away, especially in the later period of the band, the two of them were unwilling to give in to each other and a split was imminent. Without cohesion, it is difficult for the band to have explosive performances in creation and performance. Sai Wing and Paul both said that the style of the Three Sons era was more mixed and had no direction. But some fans of the Three Sons era, or more precisely, fans of a certain member of the band, are unwilling to believe or face this fact. Of course, there are huge differences in the tastes, preferences, qualities, and professional foundations of each listener, so just listen according to your own preferences.
I would also like to say that no one has spent as much time and effort writing about the Three Sons era as I have. If there are fans and readers who are not satisfied, I very much hope that they will participate in writing about the Three Sons era and write about Beyond or the Three Sons in their hearts. That would be a result I would be happy to see, and it would also be another extension of the meaning of my biography.
Yang Biwei:During the period of the three bands, there was no unified direction and core driving force for the band's development. The result of "dispersion" is directly related to the demands of the three bands, and is also a typical postmodern cultural landscape. In fact, Hong Kong pop culture is a brilliant postmodern landscape, witnessing the prosperity and desolation, noise and loneliness of postmodernism. Leo Ou-fan Lee once talked about the influence of Shanghai on Hong Kong in "Shanghai Modern". Decades later, Hong Kong pop culture in turn influenced several generations of mainlanders including us. From the 70s to the 90s, everyone has memories of Hong Kong pop culture. Not long ago, I noticed that there are already 00s and even 10s fans on Beyond's NetEase Cloud. They called Ka Kui "Uncle Ka Kui" in their comments. In addition to Beyond, what other influences does Hong Kong pop culture have on you? Have these influences been integrated into your creative system? Are you still paying attention to Hong Kong's current rock music?
Zuo Anjun:Writing "Music and Fury: Beyond" is a response to the influence of Hong Kong pop culture. Hong Kong music and movies certainly have an impact on me in terms of aesthetics, emotions, and spirit, but this influence may not be directly reflected in my writing. However, it is precisely through writing that I participate in the construction of this popular culture. The creation of this biography has expanded the boundaries of my writing, and I believe that I will make new breakthroughs in my continuous attempts in the future. I have been paying attention to new bands, including Hong Kong rock, but many bands have a weak temperament and style, and their works are not very outstanding, and they don’t seem to bring me any surprises.
Yang Biwei:Finally, can you please tell us what you hope people will get from "Music and Rage: Beyond"? What are your next writing plans?
Zuo Anjun:First of all, of course, I hope that readers will see a true, objective, and complex history of Beyond. After all, this is the motivation for the original creation. Beyond's works, struggles, qualities, spirit, etc. are all presented in the book, but each reader will understand it differently. As long as you read it carefully, I believe you will discover something different and have a new understanding of Beyond.
Regarding my writing plan, I am currently writing poetry, and I am also doing some research on poetry and poets, which will take a long time. Writing poetry is a way to communicate and dialogue with myself, while research is a way to reflect on and understand history, and it is also the best way to communicate and dialogue with the research object.
Zuo Anjun, a native of Chuanqing, is a young poet and writer. He was born in Nayong, Guizhou in 1991. He graduated from Sichuan University. He initiated and founded the private magazine "On the Way" and edited it. His works have been published in magazines such as "Poetry Magazine", "Stars", "Youth", "Poetry Jiangnan", "Prose Poetry", "Youth Literature" and many anthologies. He has written the poetry collection "The Third Person of Me" and the biography "Joy and Anger: Beyond". Yang Biwei is from Zhaotong, Yunnan. He holds a doctorate in literature from Minzu University of China and a postdoctoral fellow in art from Peking University. He is a member of the Chinese Writers Association, Member of the Chinese Society of Literary Critics. His academic research involves literature, rock, folk songs, film, photography, installation, etc. He once opened an art criticism column in Southern Weekend. He has published six collections of poetry, prose, and academic criticism, including Going to Nanyang, Traveling to Mars, and Bi Yi or Nan Hong: The Interpretation of Poetry and Art. The online course "Understanding Chinese New Poetry from the Shallow to the Deep" is available on Tencent Video. In 2021, he was selected into the "Twenty Years of New Century Literature·20 Young Poets" list of "Zhongshan" & "Yangtze River Literary Review". )
Zuo Anjun Yang Biwei
(This article is from The Paper. For more original information, please download the "The Paper" APP)
