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Feng Ji (Photo: Southern People Weekly reporter Dashi)

Going down with out of control

Southern People Weekly:What is the special day of August 20th? Why are the important milestones of the game set on this day?

Feng Ji:The earliest date of August 20 was indeed a coincidence. At that time, we wanted to invite some media, and there happened to be ChinaJoy in Shanghai in July, so we invited them to come at the end of July, and we could release it in late August.

We have done a data statistics before. On Thursdays, people are most relaxed at work and are most likely to watch videos. When there is no weekend, people gradually become lazy. So we chose a Thursday in late August, which happened to be August 20, 2020. After checking the lunar calendar, it was not a very bad day, so we released it.

After the decision was made, I had some inspirations. For example, Apple's press conference is held in the second week of September every year, just like the Spring Festival Gala. Essentially, it is a fixed time, which will bring about the crystallization of thinking, rather than saying that I will hold a press conference in March and quickly warm up in advance. We found that as long as there is a fixed time every year, this time will gradually be embedded in people's minds.

So we will release videos every year, and it is the easiest to match them with August 20th, because people don’t have to remember them. Maybe this time will be the time for all our future marketing activities and product releases, which is also a kind of IP thinking.

The game was originally expected to be released in the first quarter of 2024, because historically, games like "Zelda: Breath of the Wild", "Monster Hunter: World", "Sekiro", and "Elden Ring》These are all in this time period, which seems to be a good time for an ARPG to be released. In the second half of the year, September will be the release date of important European and American New Year products (annual masterpieces of series games), which will be connected to the Christmas season, so we want to avoid it. But we found that we couldn’t finish it, so we didn’t set “8.20” until the second half of 2023, and everyone was relieved. It’s easy to remember and we have more time.

Southern People Weekly:《Black Myth: Wukong》 has not been released yet, but it has been popular for four years. What impact did the initial popularity have on your game production?

Feng Ji:It was quite unexpected. We thought that we would be satisfied with 500,000 to 1 million views for the trailer in 2020. This is the number of views for the trailers of top games. But it broke 10 million on the same day and now it’s over 50 million. No one has ever encountered such a situation.

Do you think there is no such ego expansion? Yes, I feel that I have been chosen all of a sudden, and then I have a sense of mission - since I have received such attention and people really like it, we should work harder in terms of resources and manpower. Internally, we think we should set a higher goal and benchmark against the best games in our minds. Whether in terms of completion, graphics, gameplay, or plot performance, we hope that players can have the same feeling as watching that video.

Driven by such attention, we came up with a blueprint that may not be so realistic, but also has some specific indicators, including a new engine, many (ancient building) scanned assets, more realistic lighting, and recruiting new colleagues. When planning new levels and new plots, we will also think of some more unrestrained and grander designs. We encountered many setbacks in 2022 and 2023. We realized that it was not a lack of money or people, but that our experience and strength could not make some ideas really come true. Perhaps it should be described this way. We originally set a goal of 70 points, and we might have achieved 75 points in the end, and even surpassed ourselves. But later our goal became 90 points or even 100 points. We couldn't do it all, but in the end we might have achieved 85 points, which was still more than 75 points.

I strongly feel that something that can reach a certain height is not something that can be completely controlled. The entire team may be slightly out of control at any time, but we should still be realistic and move forward with this loss of control. This does not mean that we should take risks to do things that we cannot handle, but a slight sense of loss of control may be better than doing something that we are sure of.

Southern People Weekly:How to grasp the sense of proportion when being slightly out of control?

Feng Ji:Many people are very pessimistic, thinking that you can't finish it? How can such a project be released in 2024? They think it's messing around. Some colleagues even asked me directly, can you stop trying such unrealistic things? This is not something we can do at this stage. Their original (starting point) is of course good, and they hope it will be more reliable and practical.

But we have been working together for 14 or 15 years since we started working on DouZheng, so we know what we are doing. We will hold each other back, like a collective sense of propriety, and we all know what the other party can do and what they are good at. Everyone will make corrections in their own areas of expertise, and find intersections. After these corrections, the product will be stable, maybe not so sharp or jumping, but I am very proud of this sense of propriety.

This project has been completed so far, and it is a complete product. It is not bad. I cannot say that it has met the expectations of users 100%, but I believe that it will definitely meet the expectations of some people, and even exceed their expectations in some places.

And one of the things I am most proud of is that the seven of us who came out together are all still doing concrete work on the front line. Not only have we not left, but everyone is still learning and doing things, and getting stronger.

Southern People Weekly:Has this loss of control ever caused any actual trouble?

Feng Ji:Yes, for example, translation issues. We planned to make the game available in 11 languages, with English dubbing, but we underestimated the amount of plot and information in the game. All the monster illustrations may have hundreds of thousands of Chinese characters. How long would it take to translate them all into the languages ​​of 11 countries?

At first, we thought we could leave it for another month after the Chinese version was in place, but that was not the case. Their (translation) process is like this: after the text is stable, they will first do local translation, and then give feedback to local relevant agencies on the quality, whether it is authentic, whether there are any problems with terminology... After several rounds of back and forth, foreign masterpieces will leave it for nearly a year. We have not yet stabilized all the texts. By August 2024, from the perspective of Chinese, it will be a relatively regret-free completion. The common practice in Europe and the United States is to leave 9-12 months before releasing the global version.

So when we estimate things like this, we have a kind of "how daring people are, how productive the land is" thinking that at worst we can just spend money or do things in parallel, but it turns out that neither of these works. In the end, there is indeed a lot of hard work that takes time. We still have to pay for this.

Of course, we are very lucky to have many capable partners who took on a lot of responsibility. The English dubbing is mainly our own translation, but many other languages ​​have not been finalized. It is all my fault. For example, my eyes are swollen, I don’t get enough sleep, and I look at the screen for too long... So after the translation is completed, I don’t have time to do enough calibration. There are some text translations of the monster manual, and we don’t have time to complete all languages. We can only ensure the completion of the English first, and strive to update it from the end of August to September.

Black Myth: Wukong

You have to always realize that you are not that great.

Southern People Weekly:Many people believe that Black Myth: Wukong is the hope of domestic stand-alone games. You seem to be placed in a certain position. Do these expectations give you a sense of mission?

Feng Ji:There is a sense of mission, but it does not come from this game. Of course, it will be strengthened if it becomes popular, and "August 20" will definitely be a very powerful boost.

When we were making the two mobile games "One Hundred Generals" and "Red Tide", we had a common idea. We hope that no matter what the subject matter or type, there will be Chinese elements in it. We want to present Chinese stories in a very trendy and modern way.

Modernity requires both technology, such as what kind of graphics, sound and light, to present, and a certain modernity in its core, that is, the difficulties, confusion, desire, and pain we encounter today. Modern people can also find something in common in these stories, rather than simply re-enacting the stories. Human nature itself is also common, and the depression of Sun Wukong is not necessarily completely different from the depression of today's office workers.

At least in the field of games, I personally feel that there is room for improvement in both aspects. First of all (in terms of technology), the game must have a next-generation presentation method. If it is presented in a very low-level way, it will be difficult to be on the stage. Everyone has seen some very good things, so we have to use something top-notch, and you can tell at a glance that its grade is at the same level as the best literary and artistic works now. This is of course difficult, but it is hard quality.

Secondly, its spiritual core is still worth studying. It is difficult for me to express it as a methodology, (for example) what kind of model is the most profound or the most modern. But first of all, a story must move oneself, and there must be something charming and unique in this story.

Black Myth: Wukong is a step forward compared to what we did before. You may feel the complexity and ambiguity more strongly when you play the second or third game. When I was working on Douzai, the main feeling was "fun". It was fun to fight monsters and to uncover some conspiracies. He was a lone hero. When it comes to Black Myth: Wukong, I feel that all living beings suffer. Everyone has their own fetters, troubles, and obsessions, and these things will eventually converge and affect the fate of everyone.

We present this panorama, rather than assigning a strong, single value to a character, saying that this character is right and other characters are wrong. You feel different characters, have different ideas, and finally derive a story that you understand. This kind of ambiguous, complex, and gray presentation is more comprehensive than directly telling you that justice triumphs over evil.

We want to tell the full story of the depth of mythology, but Black Myth: Wukong is just the first step, and its popularity gives us more confidence. I hope that Chinese culture can conquer the world in a more modern way and make the good things of this nation popular around the world.

I think this is the responsibility of our generation. We have seen good things from the West, and we know some common things. We have mastered some abilities, and we are confident that we should produce some (good things).

We must talk about the sense of mission, even though it is a bit exaggerated. If a person is still in elementary school, and he sees a game called Black Myth: Wukong, he may not be able to play it yet, because he is just a kid, but he knows that something originally based in China can be expressed in this way. When he grows up, he may make something much better than Black Myth: Wukong, because he has such confidence or inspiration.

We really hope that it is not that we are the only ones who can make this thing, but once we prove that this kind of thing can be done, more people will make things far beyond ours, even if it is not in the form of a game. If Black Myth: Wukong can play a small role, I think it will make everyone feel that this thing is not so far-fetched.

The launch of our promotional video can already serve as an incentive because we have a high number of views, but if our game is launched and can achieve certain commercial results, it may make this thing more sustainable. Of course, we also wonder if there is a way to summarize and share our experiences or lessons, and how we can use a Chinese story to interpret the capabilities of next-generation games, and use a reasonable way to help those who also want to do this.

We haven’t had time to do this yet, because we are still looking at bugs in this product every day…

Southern People Weekly:How do you and your team deal with ego inflation?

Feng Ji:I think it is because someone always believes in us that we don't lower our standards. We will also do something that feels more interesting and can look further ahead.

I think we should have the opposite idea. You should always be aware that you are not that great, noble, or important, but this does not prevent us from trying to do this well. We also think that this thing must be valuable, but at the same time, you also see yourself from another perspective as someone who pursues fame and fortune, as someone who is opportunistic.

At the annual meeting last year, I told all my colleagues that if I had only one sentence to give you, I would choose this one from Fitzgerald: "The measure of first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in the mind and still carry on functioning." You will always feel that this thing will succeed, and you will always feel that you will fail, but it doesn't matter, you can still do things; you always feel that this is your most important project, and this is your most glorious moment, but you always feel that this thing is not worth mentioning, and you will do something more powerful and greater than this project.

I would be such a person. People should not be too one-dimensional. (I would not think) this is the most important thing in my life. If this thing fails, it’s all over. If it succeeds, everything is there and life will be happy from now on? Maybe a certain moment is your highlight moment, but when you are at the peak of confidence, you are also at the abyss of ignorance. This time may also be your most dangerous time, or the time when you least understand your true state.

Southern People Weekly:What will you do on August 20th?

Feng Ji:I was probably with everyone at the company. We had never dealt with so many users, so many people came in, how many problems were there? Should we prepare emergency patches? Should we write a notice to apologize? ... All of this needed to be prepared. Anyway, we would prepare some kind of ceremony for our colleagues that day.

(Colleague: Many stores offered to send us champagne, but I have been refusing today.) What? Well, I think we can collect it now, and then we can open it when there is no problem. (What if) we collect it on the same day and it dies on the same day? It's a bit of performance art, you know? There are a lot of bad reviews.

Southern People Weekly:Are you worried?

Feng Ji:Actually, I am confident. I am not confident just now. I said I was confident at the 2022 annual meeting. I said there is no need to hesitate or worry.

We are now the best ARPG in China. It was only CE03 (the third version of the test) at that time, and the game was 60% complete (what does that mean?). But what I said is not groundless. We have found a unique combat experience that belongs only to Black Myth. Our core has begun to stabilize, and this core can be felt by players. I believe they will recognize that this is a long board and is irreplaceable.

In Chinese mythology, two heroes fight each other, each showing their magical powers, and also clash with weapons, turning into something taller than a mountain. How can these things be presented in the game? It took us four or five years to figure it out, and many things were not done in the right way. But after so many years, we finally found a way to achieve this unique match. This part was eventually confirmed by us as the most important soul of the game.

If I had to use one sentence to describe what we did well, what I would most like to hear is: "This is how I imagined Sun Wukong fighting Erlang Shen."

Southern People Weekly:"Black Myth: Wukong" feels like a very bleak story.

Feng Ji:I think desolation is the essence of all stories.

I am a biology student. From a biological perspective, dopamine, endorphins, and serotonin are the three main substances that bring pleasure to people. But these substances are short-lived. People cannot be excited continuously. After excitement, there will be a refractory period. The action potential will protect people from having such an orgasm experience again. As Schopenhauer said, life is like a pendulum, always swinging between pain and boredom. The moment of swinging is happy, but soon it will either become boring or painful.

It is difficult to present a happy story. We can only say that the ending is happy, or that a moment is happy. But in fact, all stories are essentially about how people face death. Different people choose different deaths. Some choose to sacrifice themselves, while others choose to be forced to perish, because their desires may lead them to the end of their own destruction. Some people choose to be ordinary and disappear silently. Isn't it desolate to hear this sentence?

But desolation is just the background. The most attractive part is knowing that in such a desolate and absurd world, people will have moments of shining. Shining may not necessarily be for justice, but may also be for ambition or paranoia, but at that moment there will be a light that implements one's own will. I can't say it is romantic... but it is romantic. It makes people think that maybe they can take a look at this story and see how it explodes at that moment.

So on this black background, we can see some fireworks. In dramaturgy, it is called character arc, which produces a decisive change in an instant. At that moment, he decides to go back, he decides to give up, he decides to fight, and he decides to face death.

(Thanks to Ma Lilingshan for her help in the interview)

Zhang Mingmeng, reporter of Southern People Weekly

Editor: Li Miao