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Interview with BW Producer of ReFantazio: Embarking on a New Journey

Carp

2024-08-05

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Author: Zili

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A dream-fulfilling journey for ATLUS

ReFantazio, which brings together veteran developers from ATLUS, has attracted a lot of attention from players since its announcement. What kind of fresh experience will this new work, which is out of the "mid-demon/personality mask" system, bring to players is undoubtedly the content that players are most concerned about.

At Bilibili World 2024, we were fortunate to be invited by SEGA and ATLUS to interview the core character creation team in "Persona 3, 4, and 5" - Mr. Katsura Hashino, who is the director of "ReFantazio" this time, and Mr. Seiki Soejima, who is in charge of character design, and asked them many key questions about the entire game.

This interview will be the latest in what we can expect to see from ReFantazio before the game launches on October 11th - and honestly, it's something that I'm really excited about.

Q: First, please introduce yourselves.

Hashino:Hello everyone, I am Katsura Hashino, the game director in charge of producing RPGs at ATLUS. My representative works include Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne, the third, fourth, and fifth generations of the Persona series, and a non-RPG work called Catherine.

I am very happy to be able to participate in the Bilibili World event this time. I am also very honored to meet with the media and be interviewed today. Thank you all.

Sub-island:Hello everyone, I am Seiki Soejima, the character designer of ReFantazio. My representative works are also the third, fourth and fifth generations of the Persona series. This is my first time to participate in the Bilibili World event and my first time to come to China. I feel very honored to have the opportunity to communicate with you face to face.

Q: The visual elements of ReFantazio are quite different from previous games. For example, in the promotional PV, I saw that the base of the protagonist and others was a steampunk-style "armored chariot".Inside the cabinWhen deciding on this theme, what kind of planning and discussions did the production team go through? Compared with modern cities, how will this theme differ for players?

Hashino:Initially, we planned the direction of ReFantazio to be "High Fantasy", and we also read and studied a lot of fantasy works. However, we felt that it would be boring to create works based on these works, and it would be better to create a work with original characteristics.

In this process, we imagine: What would the world in modern people's imagination look like? I think our works should not just give people a superficial feeling of "going to a fantasy world", but should bring some influence and inspiration to the environment in which modern people live through the stories in the works. I think such a story is a good original story that fits the tonality of ATLUS.

We discussed this with Mr. Ikuto Yamashita, the mecha designer of Neon Genesis Evangelion, and Mr. Kazuma Koda, who participated in the concept art design of NieR: Automata, and they felt that we could build a world view that could include elements such as "armored tanks." It can be said that the style of ReFantazio was established through constant discussions among our production team.

Q: It has been 8 years since the project of ReFantazio was launched in 2016, which is a relatively long development cycle. Did you encounter any difficulties in the process? At first glance, the finished game looks like a medieval version of "Persona", is this the same as your original idea for the work?

Hashino:There are many people in the production team of "ReFantazio" who have participated in the development of multiple "Persona" series. The experience accumulated in the "Persona" series can be applied to "ReFantazio".

In ReFantazio, the protagonist is on a journey in a fantasy-styled other world. In this process, it is also very important to continuously improve the bond with your partners. Compared to letting players explore at will without time limits, I think letting players think about how to explore within a time limit can better highlight the realism and sense of immersion in the journey. Of course, this is not an intention to make ReFantazio in the "Persona" mode. This is more about using the experience we have accumulated before and putting it in a new plan.

The current look of ReFantazio is consistent with my original vision. Of course, it is inevitable that some changes will occur during the discussion and exploration among the production team. For us, this is also a "journey" of our own.

Q: In the trial play, we can see that "ReFantazio" has time and weather restrictions. Will this system be consistent with the "Persona" series?

Hashino:In the Persona series, the protagonist spends one of the three years of high school. In ReFantazio, the protagonist's journey also needs to take time into account. In this sense, the two are indeed similar.

Regarding the weather... For example, when I came to Shanghai, I felt that the weather in Shanghai was very similar to that in Tokyo, but Tokyo might be a little hotter now. It was raining in Shanghai recently, so the temperature was slightly lower and the humidity was higher. The difference in weather between the two places gave me a different feeling. The weather element was added to ReFantazio to give players this kind of "different feelings in different weather" experience.

I think if you recall your previous travels, "the temperature at the destination is different from the departure point" must be the first feeling after arriving at the destination. Through this system, I hope to let players feel the feelings generated by various travels in reality through the game.

Q: As ATLUS's new game this year, it's hard not to associate ReFantazio with the previous Shin Megami Tensei and Persona series. As mentioned in the previous question, ReFantazio will have some unique features. What is the biggest feature of ReFantazio?

Hashino:The gameplay and overall rhythm of ReFantazio are different from previous works of ATLUS. At the core level, the biggest feature of ReFantazio is that it takes "travel" as the core element of the entire work. In the story process of ReFantazio, the protagonist will continue to grow during the journey, which is different from previous works.

For example, in Persona, the protagonist fights through his "other self", while in Shin Megami Tensei, he uses demons. In ReFantazio, we want to emphasize that the protagonist becomes a hero entirely by his own strength.

Q: I noticed that Mr. Ikuto Yamashita, who is very good at mechanical settings, is among the production staff. Why did you choose him as your partner?

Hashino:In the early stages of the design, I asked Mr. Soejima to create the first draft of "Armored Chariot". Although it was great, we still wanted to reflect some temperament that was different from previous works. So, we invited Mr. Yamashita Ikuto to create a different "Armored Chariot". This process was not that we chose Mr. Yamashita from many people, but we aimed to "refer to his ideas" from the beginning.

Sub-island:Over the years, Mr. Hashino and I have worked on many games together, and we are quite familiar with each other's ideas, which actually defines the tone of the work. For our generation, Mr. Yamashita Ikuto is a legend in the industry - in "Neon Genesis Evangelion", he combined the two elements of "robots" and "giant creatures" very well. So, in order to break our inherent thinking, we invited him to participate in the design of "ReFantazio".

Hashino:At this point, we invited Mr. Koda Kazuma for this reason. ReFantazio was greatly influenced by them, and the game's various advantages are inseparable from their efforts.

Q: The "Aki State" designed with various professions in mind is the basis of the command-based combat in "ReFantazio". Are there any connections between the different "Aki States"? Will there be advanced designs similar to the "Devil Fusion" in "Shin Megami Tensei" that use the characteristics of different "Aki States" to enrich the gameplay?

Hashino:In ReFantazio, by combining different "Aki states" when forming a team, you can use various combination skills "combinations" in battle. This is the main manifestation of the new content feature of "Aki states".

Q: How is the character design in ReFantazio different from that in the Persona series?

Hashino:The biggest difference between ReFantazio and previous works is the presence of various races. In addition, during the design process, the character's identity must also be taken into consideration, such as "noble" and "knight". In other words, the character design of ReFantazio is based on "personality" and "identity", which is very different from the "Persona" series.

Another difference is that in ReFantazio, I tried to create more "adult-feeling" characters. After all, many of the villains in the Persona series are evil adults who bully high school students. So when making ReFantazio, I wanted to add more charm to the villains, hoping that they could also become popular characters.

Q: In ReFantazio, there is a game element similar to "job change". What is the inspiration for adding this design?

Hashino:Many classic fantasy RPGs provide players with the function of "free job transfer", such as the classic game "Wizardry" of our generation. Now the "job" system of many RPGs has changed from its original meaning. I think that "job" should be one of the most important factors in the setting of a character, rather than just providing some special functions for this character.

It is precisely because of this idea of ​​"profession" and my own study of Jung's psychology that I created the "Aki State" (archetype), a new career system for my genre, in "ReFantazio". In fact, the "personality mask" element in the "Persona" series is also a kind of "Aki State" (archetype) in Jungian psychology. Many heroic legends in classical mythology also meet the definition of "Aki State" (archetype). Because of this, I started from the two aspects of design concept and gameplay and combined the two together.

Q: In ReFantazio, the fantasy world of the inhabitants of the other world is our real world. Are there any special considerations when designing this?

Hashino:In addition to the dramatic elements of the plot itself, I also hope that players can be inspired by this setting. As for what kind of inspiration this is, you can get some information from the name of the work "ReFantazio", that is, this setting has some metaphors.

When players play fantasy RPGs, they usually have a desire to "get away from the real world" and temporarily forget their troubles in a different world where they can be happy. So, if we think about the people in the other world in fantasy works, we may also have some fantasies because of the problems in their world. Maybe this fantasy just corresponds to the real world we live in. I think this kind of empathy is very interesting.

Q: In "Persona", the progress of the schedule is closely related to the protagonist's student status. This time in "ReFantazio", the gameplay of advancing the schedule is still designed, but the game background has changed a lot compared to "Persona". How does the schedule of "ReFantazio" proceed? Can you choose to do more things in a period of time? If you move around the kingdom map frequently, will it delay your schedule?

Hashino:I came to Shanghai on a business trip for three days and two nights. In fact, I really want to see the skyscrapers in Shanghai and see what the whole city looks like from the top of a tall building. But now, due to time factors and the rain, this wish is not easy to realize. If you recall your own business trip experience, you will probably have the same feeling. For people in our modern society, traveling is like this, and time is not unlimited. I hope that by adding the concept of "schedule", players can experience the reality of travel more. Of course, what you want to do every day in the game is decided by the players themselves.

As for whether frequent movement will delay your schedule, we have actually added a method of "instantly moving to places you have already visited" into the game, so don't worry.

Q: In "Persona" and "Shin Megami Tensei", many elements from myths and legends from all over the world are used. Will "ReFantazio" adopt a similar design this time?

Sub-island:Regarding the design of bosses and monsters, I was not directly involved. But I can also talk about the design of monsters. The monsters that players encounter in the wild are very typical monster images that you will encounter in fantasy works. In the "Persona" series, because the setting is to use the power of the mind to fight, I designed the monsters in "Persona" to be able to show the inner thoughts. In "ReFantazio", we want to emphasize the presence of monsters in the wild. For example, there is a monster called "Human", which actually refers to Mr. Hashino's ideas and incorporates the style of Hieronymus Bosch, the first medieval painter in human history to depict monsters.

Q: Compared with previous works, ReFantazio adds some real-time combat gameplay to the battle. How did this idea come about? In the process of designing this gameplay, did the production team encounter any difficulties, and did they gain any new insights?

Hashino:In previous series, we have always adopted command-based combat, but for some simple battles, this design is a bit inconvenient. Therefore, for some miscellaneous enemies, we can use action attacks in the wild to defeat them, so that the player's gameplay rhythm becomes smoother and players will not feel bored fighting the same enemies all the time.

Generally speaking, the combat system will be determined in the early stages of development because it does not affect the plot or story. However, during the development of ReFantazio, we made many adjustments to it, and we put a lot of thought into it.

Q: Is the plot of ReFantazio more lighthearted or darker?

Hashino:As for the plot setting, it is still different from the relaxed campus life in the "Persona" series. After all, the main story of "ReFantazio" is that the protagonist participates in the battle to decide the next king.

Of course, we have also designed some characters with outstanding personalities. There will be a relatively funny and relaxed atmosphere in the plot, but there will also be serious content.

Q: How difficult will this game be? Are there any auxiliary designs for casual players? What suggestions do you have for hardcore players who want to challenge high-difficulty battles?

Hashino:We added difficulty options to ReFantazio so that different players can enjoy the game.

From the perspective of game development, we don't actually decide the overall difficulty of the game at the beginning. This is related to the gameplay of the game. For example, the "Persona" series has a collection gameplay, so the overall combat difficulty is not too difficult. In "ReFantazio", the test of the player's strategic thinking is mainly in the formation.

In addition, we have also added a design that allows players to restart the battle after failing, which can make the player's gaming experience better.

Q: What impact will the "support rate" system have on the game?

Hashino:As for the impact of the "support rate" system on the game... Actually, it doesn't mean that you can't play the game if the "support rate" is low. But it doesn't mean that the "support rate" is not important. At the beginning of the game, the protagonist's "support ranking" is about 4000. When you play to the end, you can remember to look at this point, and you will find that the "support rate" has been greatly improved compared to the beginning.

Q: What was the opportunity to establish Studio Zero? As the studio's first original work, what kind of expectations does "ReFantazio" carry for Studio Zero?

Hashino:The reason why "ReFantazio" was produced is actually because ATLUS wanted to make other iconic works that can represent us besides "Shin Megami Tensei" and "Persona".

We are actually envious of other companies that have launched many excellent works. After all, we have made the most games with modern society as the theme. Now, our games are popular all over the world, and we are grateful that our fans and users are increasing. So we thought about whether we could challenge new themes and enter new fields.

In previous works, we mainly told stories about high school students growing up and becoming adults. We felt that if we continued in this way, we would lose the excitement of creation. I believe that you as media can also feel this - as creators, we always want to break through ourselves and bring you something different from before. This time, we adopted a new theme in "ReFantazio" with this consideration.

Q: What are your thoughts on participating in the Bilibili World 2024 event?

Sub-island:The biggest impression left by this event was that it was very shocking. Since I am also a creator, I really like to see many different character designs. After coming here, I also saw a lot of rich content. As a foreigner, I saw a lot of excellent Chinese designs. One feeling is that they are very diverse, and another feeling is that these designs transcend national boundaries. I feel the communication between different cultures.

Hashino:Although I didn’t visit too many booths this time, I still felt that the scale of this exhibition was very grand. I am very happy to be able to display our work "ReFantazio" at such an exhibition.

At the booth, I also saw many Chinese players queuing up to try out the game, and I felt everyone's enthusiasm.

And from the booths I saw, I felt that Chinese creators are creating more and more high-quality content, and their influence will definitely go beyond China and reach the world. So, I am very happy to be able to participate in this event and witness this.

Q: Finally, do you have anything to say to Chinese players?

Hashino:This time I came to Shanghai to participate in the Bilibili World 2024 event. I met many fans who like ATLUS's RPG, and also communicated and exchanged with many players. I felt very happy.

The work "ReFantazio" exhibited this time is not started from scratch. It embodies the advantages that ATLUS has always had and makes these advantages serve new ideas. I hope players will like it.

Sub-island:After coming to Shanghai to attend Bilibili World 2024, I met many fans who like our game. This is also the first time I have the opportunity to communicate directly with Chinese players. I feel very happy.

We just mentioned the topic of Atlus Studio. This time, ReFantazio is a fantasy RPG based on the experience accumulated in the Persona series. In it, I was able to realize many ideas that I had no chance to realize before. I hope to bring you some freshness and experience the characteristics of ATLUS works.

I hope players will like this work and tell their friends about the advantages of this work that they have experienced. Thank you everyone.