beijing xiangshan forum·high-level dialogue｜beware of the issues of compliance with international law and neutrality in conflict areas
2024-09-15
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international rules are the premise and foundation for achieving stable development of the international community. after the second world war, a global governance framework was established with the united nations as the main body, including the international monetary fund, the world bank, the world trade organization and other mechanisms. although this framework is not perfect, it has played an important role in world peace and development.
on september 12, the 11th beijing xiangshan forum "high-level interview: global vision" was held at the beijing international convention center. in the interview with the theme of "international rules", gao zhiguo, former president of the china society of the law of the sea, former judge of the international tribunal for the law of the sea, and professor of dalian maritime university, and peter evans, director of the armed forces relations department of the international committee of the red cross, discussed the importance of international rules and the challenges they face in regional conflicts and security issues. the interview was hosted by wu ting, editor of the paper (www.thepaper.cn).
image source: beijing xiangshan forum official website
the following is the main content of the interview
challenges to international rules in global security issues
wu ting:thank you all for participating in the "international rules" forum. we have invited two famous guests, professor gao zhiguo and mr. peter evans. what do you think are the most urgent and concerning security issues?
high country:there are many international events happening now, including the conflict in the gaza strip, the ukrainian crisis and energy security issues. the situation in gaza has always been of concern to me, because there is a very serious humanitarian crisis there, with a large number of deaths, especially among children, so humanitarian law is an area of concern for me.
another safety issue is the discharge of contaminated water from japan into the sea. this is not only because it is an incident that happened around us, but also because it has an uncertain and long-term impact on the marine environment, and even has an impact on the world. in april 2021, the japanese government officially decided to filter and dilute millions of tons of contaminated water from the fukushima daiichi nuclear power plant into the sea. in august 2023, the japanese government unilaterally and forcibly started the discharge of contaminated water from the fukushima nuclear accident into the sea, which will last at least another 30 years.
the contaminated water from the fukushima nuclear power plant contains as many as 64 radioactive elements, including carbon 14, which has a half-life of about 5,730 years. even with the best scientific knowledge and technology, we cannot determine its long-term impact, what consequences it will have on the marine ecological environment and human life, health and genetics, and of course, violations of human rights.
the united nations convention on the law of the sea clearly explains the protection of the marine environment. article 192 of the convention stipulates that countries have the obligation to protect and preserve the marine environment; article 195 stipulates that a country should not transfer pollution from one area to another, or from one type of pollution to another. all countries have the responsibility to protect the marine environment. this is the obligation of all countries in the world, which is self-evident and does not require very complicated explanations. the united nations laws on the protection of the marine environment are very clear. our neighboring country japan should strictly follow this provision and strictly and conscientiously fulfill their obligations.
peter evans:the red cross works in conflict zones to protect victims of crises, such as the one in gaza, which was devastating. my colleagues and i witnessed the attacks there first-hand. the red cross has publicly condemned the devastation in gaza on many occasions.
just now you also talked about the crisis in ukraine, including the attacks on infrastructure that will affect heating in the region, making life more difficult for ordinary people. there are also more than 18 million people in yemen who need humanitarian assistance. there are many such problems. but i would like to draw your attention to two strategic perspectives. the first is about how to abide by international rules and international humanitarian law, and the second is about the principle of neutrality.
international law is to protect ordinary people and those who are not participating in the war. but if the belligerents and the parties to the conflict do not comply with international law, for example, some military personnel take prisoners of war and attack them at will, this will create a huge humanitarian crisis and endanger a large number of civilians. if international law can be followed, we will continue to see the positive humanitarian impact it brings. in fact, the red cross cannot do this alone. each country has laws and each country has the responsibility to ensure compliance (in terms of compliance with international law). speaking of military power, one of my jobs is to explain the law to the military. therefore, the military also needs to think about protecting civilians and those who are not participating in the war while achieving its military goals.
another aspect is the question of neutrality. the icrc is a neutral international organization. what does neutrality mean in today's environment? we see so much polarization, including within countries, within conflicts, and at the geopolitical level. in this context, what is neutrality? we must always maintain neutrality and remain neutral to all parties in the conflict.
we need to communicate with the warring parties, such as the issue of prisoners of war, and how to ensure that we have access to humanitarian aid. but this is becoming increasingly difficult, because in the current polarized world, it is not easy to maintain dialogue with all parties in the conflict. in the current world situation, it is particularly difficult to remain neutral. so i especially want to emphasize to everyone here the importance of "neutrality".
wu ting:thank you, mr. peter evans. you mentioned that there are many problems in terms of compliance (compliance with international law). there is also a principle of proportionality, especially in conflict areas. do you think this principle is still valid?
peter evans:the principle of proportionality means that when you take a military action, you need to consider the impact it will have on civilians. for example, you cannot target civilian targets and you must provide humanitarian care to detainees. these important consensuses are very common and must be followed by all countries. we must actively implement these principles. if there are no restrictions, imagine how much damage modern weapons systems can bring.
the value of international humanitarian law is to reduce this suffering. this year marks the 75th anniversary of the geneva conventions. at their core, they protect people who are caught up in conflict but not involved in it. it remains a very powerful treaty.
wu ting:professor gao, are you still optimistic about the effectiveness/influence of international law on relevant security issues, especially the pollution of the marine environment and the challenges of unsustainable development that you just mentioned? are you still optimistic?
high country:when we talk about international maritime law, we automatically think of the united nations convention on the law of the sea, which was negotiated under the guidance of the united nations. after 14 years of lengthy negotiations, more than 100 countries participated in the multilateral negotiations and finally reached the convention.
the convention contains a total of 320 articles, which is unprecedented in international multilateral treaties. it provides basic guidelines for how the world uses marine resources. more importantly, it establishes a judicial system/institution, such as the international tribunal for the law of the sea, which i mentioned earlier, whose task is to interpret and implement the provisions of the convention.
three additional agreements have been reached over the past 40 years. the most important of these is the bbnj agreement, which was reached in 2023, the convention on biological diversity in areas beyond national jurisdiction, which establishes a framework for the conservation and sustainable use of marine life in the high seas. so far, more than 170 countries have signed the agreement. unfortunately, its effectiveness has not been satisfactory so far.
neutrality is crucial in regional conflicts
wu ting:peter, how do you feel about the balance between compliance with international humanitarian law and humanitarian action?
peter evans:international humanitarian law is a very complete system, which aims to protect the public, especially those who did not participate in the war. for example, fighters who became prisoners are also protected by law. however, how to prevent war still depends on the united nations charter. how should this be balanced?
on the one hand, the military has to achieve its military objectives, but at the same time, it also needs to consider how to avoid harming and affecting civilian targets. this has always been our biggest concern. the red cross has a very important responsibility to remind countries to fulfill their obligations. if we find any risks to citizens, we will remind the relevant countries. the working method of the international committee of the red cross is to have confidential dialogues with various countries - you have to achieve your goals in military terms, but you also have to protect humanitarian rights. once military operations are not balanced and humanitarian interests are not taken into account, huge humanitarian losses will occur.
i would also like to remind you that each link is interdependent. for example, if an attack destroys power facilities, causing a hospital to lose power, citizens will not be able to get medical services, and they will not have access to clean water. subsequently, wastewater cannot be discharged, and diseases will follow. therefore, we must see the holistic nature of the conflict. it is important to balance the humanitarian and military forces in the conflict.
the second point is what i talked about before, neutrality. this allows us to get to the places that need assistance in conflict areas. sometimes the warring parties don't want people to go into the war zone and don't want us to provide humanitarian assistance. we have been talking about international humanitarian law, and now there are 196 parties to the geneva conventions. we (the international committee of the red cross) hope that every country will fulfill its obligations and ensure that humanitarian aid can enter the conflict area. but in fact, this is difficult, and this is one of the sources of tension.
in terms of public information dissemination, more people need to know that the icrc is neutral. because there is a lot of information in the public domain that criticizes humanitarianism, which puts our staff in danger. there was once a uniformed person who entered the area where we were working and said that the icrc only protects one party, but in fact we protect all neutral people, including civilians. this is a special threat we face.
wu ting:professor gao, do you have anything to add?
high country:i agree with peter evans that neutrality is very important. humanitarian law is also part of international law. although we face some difficulties, humanitarian organizations and global organizations have been helping those in need in conflict areas.
wu ting:mr. peter evans, in your opinion, is there any way to promote these global laws and rules?
peter evans:i think it's important that when almost all other legal instruments fail, as in the ukraine and gaza crises, there needs to be at least an international legal instrument as a framework that can prevent some of these disasters from happening.
there is no doubt that i believe that effective international humanitarian law can indeed reduce harm to civilians and help release detained civilians. if used properly, this framework law can also guarantee humanitarian assistance. we need to continue to work on compliance, and countries should provide support. china has also proposed to address these issues, which we welcome very much. platforms such as the beijing xiangshan forum are very good.
we need to see clearly what changes technology will bring, such as automated weapon systems that can attack targets without human instructions. this is extremely dangerous. the secretary-general of the united nations and the president of the international committee of the red cross have called on countries to establish new bans and restrictions on autonomous weapon systems and recommended that countries conclude a legally binding instrument by 2026. we must make autonomous weapons compliant before they get out of control and before potential humanitarian crises occur. therefore, we need to speed up legislation and sign relevant laws.
the “rules-based international order” is vague and deceptive
wu ting:professor gao, is there anything you would like to add? where can we make improvements?
high country:when it comes to international rules, i think many people will automatically think of international law, more specifically international judicial documents including multilateral agreements and some conventions, declarations, etc. in addition to international laws, we often hear another term, "rules-based international order". this is mainly proposed by american colleagues or american politicians, and western media will advocate this. the term "rules-based international order" is very confusing and even a bit deceptive.
so far, no scholar, official or media has been able to give an accurate definition of what a "rules-based international order" is, which confuses us. there is a view that it is necessary to keep it vague intentionally. although such wording is very vague, it gives people the impression that the rules-based order is defined by the united states, filtered and selected by the west and defined by western values. only a few "global south" have used this term.
the current international order was established and developed after the end of world war ii, mainly based on the un charter and the un system. the international order we are talking about now is concerned with peace, stability and development. china's reform and opening up over the past few decades has also focused on economic and social development, and we have made many achievements in this order. therefore, china is a beneficiary and supporter of this order. china does not seek to challenge or change the current international order or international laws. what the "global south" including china wants to try is to improve the global order in response to the various changes that are currently happening rapidly around the world.
in the previous conversation, the general of sri lanka mentioned that the world is changing every hour. the current international order or international rules are not perfect. peter evans also talked about neutrality and compliance. i think these two points are affected by a series of challenges, including but not limited to a pragmatic view of the global order - if it is beneficial to me, i will use it, if it is not beneficial, i will abandon it.
to summarize china's basic principles on global rules, there are three main points. first, china supports the global governance framework with the united nations as the main body; second, china advocates "an international order based on international law"; third, china firmly upholds the un charter and the basic norms of international relations based on the charter.
all countries should follow the global order and should not use it selectively with a pragmatic view. finally, all countries should conduct in-depth discussions on how to improve the global international order and regulations to cope with the huge changes that are now happening rapidly around the world.
thepaper.cn reporter yang wenqin
(this article is from the paper. for more original information, please download the "the paper" app)
