2024-07-28
한어Русский языкEnglishFrançaisIndonesianSanskrit日本語DeutschPortuguêsΕλληνικάespañolItalianoSuomalainenLatina
Tencent News "Innovators"
Editor-in-Chief Xu Tan
Edited by Yang Hao
In 2024, Ning Gaoning went to the park to buy a ticket. The ticket seller looked at him and said, "You don't need to buy a ticket, just go in directly." Ning Gaoning was shocked. After the age of 60, the park was free of charge. A cycle of life has come.
After retirement, without the title attached to you by the outside world, you can return more to yourself and to the essence of being human.
In 1986, Ning Gaoning graduated from the University of Pittsburgh in the United States and came to Hong Kong, China, where he started at the grassroots level. In 1999, at the age of 41, Ning Gaoning was appointed as the general manager of China Resources Group. By the time he left office in 2005, China Resources Group had not only achieved a leapfrog growth in assets, revenue and profits, but also completed a fundamental transformation from trade to industry. Since then, he has brought COFCO, Sinochem, and ChemChina to the top 500 companies in the world, and is known as the "Red Morgan of China."
He has a "tiger theory", "A big cat is not a cat, a big cat becomes a tiger, and the power of a tiger is far greater than that of 26 cats." Through mergers and acquisitions and restructuring, he made the company bigger and stronger and entered into diversified fields.
In 2005, he came to COFCO and changed the "COFCO Middle Management Cadre Conference" to the "COFCO Managers Annual Conference", promoting the professional manager system within the state-owned enterprise system. He believes that "people are everything in management", which is very close to the essence of Drucker's management theory - focusing on people's enthusiasm, creativity and efficiency.
In 2016, he transferred to Sinochem, where he completed the world-renowned "merger of two chemical companies" and proposed "science first", completely transforming Sinochem from a trading company to an innovative company driven by science and technology. He said Sinochem has greater development potential, because chemistry is the science of creating new substances, and creation is the essence of life.
Ning Gaoning told Tencent News' "Innovators" that he is writing to systematically review and reflect on his career again. "Reflecting on the past without the constraints of a framework, you will feel that you didn't understand anything in the past. Why did you think so at that time?"
"The time point and perspective are different, so the answers may be different," said Ning Gaoning.
Recently, Tencent News' "Innovators" column interviewed Mr. Ning Gaoning, member of the Standing Committee of the 13th National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, former Secretary of the Party Committee and Chairman of China National Chemical Corporation, on hot topics such as his past experiences, corporate governance, how to employ people, and AI.
The following is a transcript of the conversation:
Tencent News "Innovators":Liu Cixin said in "The Three-Body Problem": "60 and 16 are both the best ages, because at 60, there is no burden of 40 or 50 years old, and the slowness and aging of 70 or 80 years old has not yet come, so it is as beautiful as 16 years old." When you retired in 2022, you wrote a poem "The Beauty of Old Age". Do you feel like you are 16 years old now?
Ning Gaoning:In fact, I think it is different because the thoughts and contents are different. At 60, you may have more experience and rich experiences. I think it is easier than at 16, and it may be better.
Tencent News "Innovators":Better than 16?
Ning Gaoning:Of course, I think that was the most precious and best time. That day I went to the park and bought a ticket. The ticket seller said that I didn’t need to buy a ticket and could enter directly. He said that I could enter directly if I was over 60 years old.I told my wife that it was a cycle. It was actually a ticket seller at a park who told me about this cycle. I was still shocked and moved.
Sometimes you will think about your past experiences, past thoughts, past mistakes, and past people again in a daze, unable to stop thinking about them, and you will laugh as you think about them.
In a situation without burden, relatively relaxed, and without frameReflect on the past. You will feel that you didn’t understand anything in the past. How did you manage to get through it without understanding anything? Why did you think like that at that time?I think this is a wonderful moment.
Tencent News "Innovators":I see some people start again at the age of 60, such as Wang Shi, Li Xiaojia and others who start their own businesses again. Have you also planned your second life?
Ning Gaoning:I know that I am quite familiar with them, but I will not do commercial things again. I think if I start over, it will be a repetition. The most important thing for people is to try new things or to create something. I still hope to write down these experiences and thoughts in a systematic way.
Depending on your age, your ability to understand, and your level of connection to life, the feelings will be different.Because the angles are different, the answers may be different.
Tencent News "Innovators":I have seen some entrepreneurs who are still challenging themselves, trying new things, and surprising others after they are 60. You may have had a title imposed on you by others before, but at the age of 60, you are more likely to return to yourself and expose yourself?
Ning Gaoning:It means that you will have less pressure from your original organization, society, and work environment. You cannot completely get rid of it, but it will be less, and you may have a new way of thinking. Some people may still maintain their childlike innocence and curiosity at the age of 80, and continue to learn new things, constantly deny themselves, or constantly re-examine what they have done in the past. This is still very interesting, and I think it is the most wonderful enjoyment.
Tencent News "Innovators":Your career happened to cover the 40 years of China's fastest economic growth. In 1978, China's GDP was more than 380, and now it is 85,000, an increase of more than 200 times in 40 years. Can you share a few things that touched you the most?
Ning Gaoning:There are many things. For example, the restoration of the college entrance examination changed our entire generation and our country until today. This is really important to us.
I arrived in Hong Kong, China, in 1986 and joined China Resources. At that time, Shenzhen was still a very small place.
At that time, for example, foreign exchange coupons were things that our generation had experienced.
For example, at the corporate level, the company is going public for the first time.In the early days, China Resources Group was punished because someone bought its stocks, but now it is going to go public itself. How big do you think the difference is?
Tencent News "Innovators": YouYou have experienced many economic crises, such as the Asian financial crisis from 1997 to 1998, the bursting of the global Internet bubble from 2001 to 2003, and the US subprime mortgage crisis in 2008. Have you experienced any thrilling moments?
Ning Gaoning:The Asian financial crisis in 1997 and 1998 also hit Hong Kong, China quite hard.At that time, China Resources also had a large investment in Hong Kong, and the real estate market fell by 60%. We sold the pre-sale properties, but people canceled their reservations and stopped buying them. There were lawsuits, and the company had cash flow problems. China Resources Bank was run, and there were all kinds of financial pressures, not only the company's profit development problems, but also the market changes.
But it is not fatal yet. Because we still have a certain safety factor. But in fact, the impact on business, strategy and finance is still very large. From the company's perspective, we have always been facing the so-called crisis layout, and we feel that this crisis actually comes about once every ten years or so.
Tencent News "Innovators":What do you think its essence is?
Ning Gaoning:It is essentially a monetary issue, a financial issue. Because before the Bretton Woods Conference, that is, before the 1970s, the crisis was production-related, for example, there was an overproduction of products, and milk was dumped into the river. At that time, we talked about the 1933 capitalist financial crisis of milk dumping.
Later, we stopped talking about economic crisis or production crisis and only talked about financial crisis. Why? Because after the dollar was decoupled from gold, the issuance of currency became the responsibility of the central bank. If the currency was issued and stimulated, but productivity did not increase accordingly, it would definitely lead to an oversupply of money and the so-called asset bubble. After the asset bubble gradually appreciated, it would bring more and more asset costs.
Add to that the international flow of goods and currency conversion, and it becomes even more complicated. But the essence is still the same. The essence is that after the so-called financial products are separated from the gold standard, it (crisis) becomes something that is easy to expand. Several financial crises are all like this. When we were in school, it was an economic crisis, but now it is called a financial crisis. Almost no one calls it an economic crisis anymore.
Tencent News "Innovators":When you were working in the company, were there times when you couldn’t sleep at night? What was keeping you awake?
Ning Gaoning:Less, there were one or two times, for example, in 1998, in Hong Kong, China, the house in the Esplanade was sold, and the price dropped by half. The buyer had an engineer who said that there was a problem with the foundation of the building, and he didn't want to buy the house anymore. But he said there was a problem with the foundation, saying that the foundation had not hit the rock, and the building would tilt in the future. At that time, the relevant management department in Hong Kong was called the Buildings Department, and they went to the Buildings Department to make trouble.
At that time, the Building Department was testing piles all day and night, and it was almost broadcast live on Hong Kong TV. Every few minutes, there would be a news report on how the testing was going. He drove a drill from a kilometer away, a drill with a lens, all the way to the pile to detect the 60 or so piles of this building, to see if they had hit the rock. Hong Kong must hit the rock, because there is rock under the sea. We just waited,I really couldn't sleep that night. I was very nervous. If I hadn't hit the rock, it would have been a big problem and the building would have been sold.
More than 30 years have passed and the building is still in good condition.
Tencent News "Innovators":The several companies you lead are all large state-owned enterprises. They are like a ship and have the advantage of scale. When encountering a crisis, are there any fatal moments?
Ning Gaoning:I think this is also an advantage of a diversified enterprise. It should not have fatal moments, but there are also tense times, when funds are tight or the market itself fluctuates, making it difficult for you to cope. But as I said earlier, in fact, a diversified enterprise will have a combination of different assets, some with high volatility and higher risk, and some with lower returns but more stable, which becomes a combination.
In the past, there was a theory that advocated diversified operations and not putting all your eggs in one basket. But now this theory is no longer accepted. Now we are talking about specialized operations, so-called putting all your eggs in one basket and keeping an eye on the basket.
Tencent News "Innovators":Focus, extreme.
Tencent News "Innovators":You have experienced many technological moments. There was a saying in the past, "There is no human history, only technological history." Every time the economy grows rapidly, it is a historical moment of technology. For example, the first year of the Internet, the iPhone moment, the first year of AI, etc. Which moment made you clearly see the direction of history when this moment comes?
Ning Gaoning:For example, will AI fundamentally change the basic principles of business civilization? I am not sure about this at the moment. In fact, I think when you deal with changes, you must stick to these basic principles of business. Why is it that a chocolate candy has been sold for 50 years and still has the largest market share? I think there is still a balance between change and non-change.Using changing technologies and capabilities to serve unchanging goals and principles may be what we should follow.
Tencent News "Innovators":What business principles do you think this candy store, which has been in business for 50 years, has adhered to?
Ning Gaoning:It's very simple, quality first, customers first, low cost, good products, delicious and cheap. Because of its professionalism, technology, and dedication, it has achieved this. The same is true for food. Food is divided into three dimensions: taste, cost, and nutrition. If you have one of the three, you win. If you can achieve two, you'll be amazing. If you have all three, you'll be invincible in the world. So I think this is a basic principle of business.
This basic principle is fundamental. It is not something high-tech or magical. It is just a basic principle. It is also a process of commercial civilization and the progress of Chinese enterprises.
Tencent News "Innovators":Speaking of business civilization, including the spirit of contract, right? In the first 20 years of reform and opening up, when we were crossing the river by feeling the stones, many companies may have gone beyond the rules. But when the market rules are relatively stable and regulated, should companies actually adhere to the spirit of contract?
Ning Gaoning:The spirit of contract is one of them. The spirit of contract means that you should keep your word and keep your contract. This is the most basic thing in business civilization. Whether you are doing high-tech or low-tech, I think this is the basic thing.
Tencent News "Innovators":The total market value of the "Seven Sisters" companies in the United States - Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Meta, Tesla, and Nvidia - is more than 90 trillion yuan, and the market value of all A-share companies is also more than 90 trillion yuan. How do our good companies grow?
Ning Gaoning:The difference in market value between Chinese and American companies may be in technology companies. China's reform and opening up has only been around for 40 years, and Chinese companies have only been around for a few decades, so it is impossible for them to catch up with them immediately. However, if China provides a fertile environment and makes adjustments to production relations, it will make it easier for innovative companies to grow, including policy support, financial support, support for concepts and values, and support that represents a direction for social development. Only in this way can good companies be gradually nurtured.
This is a process. In fact, there is only one Silicon Valley in the world, which was formed in a specific historical environment, cultural country, system, race and financial environment. Their price-earnings ratios are more than dozens of times, between 30 and 50 times. Our price-earnings ratio is between 10 times. For similar companies with good growth potential, but with a low price-earnings ratio, their market value will be small. If our country wants to stand tall among the nations of the world and lead some technological progress of mankind, I think it still requires a lot of effort.
Tencent News "Innovators":What is the breakthrough in thinking?
Ning Gaoning:I was at Peking University that day, it was spring, and I asked how many of you were interested in discovering a small insect on a tree in Beijing that had never existed before? This is about exploring the world. Some people may think that discovering that small insect that had never been discovered before, or discovering something, is more important than making money in this life.Perhaps we need this spirit of adventure and exploration more, that is, beyond the so-called wealth and glory, we can find a new value and a new path to self-realization.
Tencent News "Innovators":So his purpose sometimes determines his realm, and this realm determines how big or how far the enterprise can go?
Ning Gaoning:This spirit of exploration, the spirit of adventure and exploration, is a very important aspect of entrepreneurship, the spirit of adventure and exploration. It may not consider short-term monetary returns. It is easy to say but difficult to do.
Tencent News "Innovators":You have led four central enterprises, and every time you leave one, the company is still running at a high level. What do you leave behind for this enterprise?
Ning Gaoning:I think the most important thing is the philosophy and values of an enterprise, a consensus of the team. The second is some principles of management itself, which is something I still don’t quite understand. Why is this organization still fermenting and moving forward (after I left)? After more than ten years, it is far beyond my imagination at the time. Their enthusiasm and motivation have not diminished. I believe that this is the principle that was formed at the time. This thing has been accepted by everyone, and they have benefited from it.
Tencent News "Innovators":How to describe this principle?
Ning Gaoning: It means market-oriented, humanized, fair and just, being kind to others, being public-spirited, doing things professionally and being a person of high standards.
Tencent News "Innovators":Can this be called a constant law of the company? Just like what Amazon's Bezos once said, many people ask me every day what will change in the next five to ten years, but few people ask me what will not change.
Ning Gaoning:Yes, our basic principle applies to anyone and in any situation.
Tencent News "Innovators":The four large companies you lead: China Resources, COFCO, Sinochem, and China National Chemical Corporation. Their business lines are very complex, and they have many subsidiaries. There are countless things to deal with. What are the most important things you have to focus on every day?
Ning Gaoning:I can say I am very busy because I am not able to put my mind to rest; I can also say I am not that busy because I do not need to go everywhere. But what are you mainly focusing on? Chairman is just a role, most of the things are not handled by me alone. Someone from Sinochem told me that they saw that Mr. Ning was not busy, he was not entangled, and he was quite carefree. I said that this is the realm I pursue. Why? From my own perspective, I must grasp the company's big strategy, culture, organizational structure, and evaluation system. The company's culture and team, he himself has become more mature.
Tencent News "Innovators":Don't need you in some meetings?
Ning Gaoning:I have a photo that is very interesting. It was after a meeting at Sinochem that lasted for three days and three nights to discuss the merger of the two companies. After the meeting, everyone said they wanted to take a photo. I saw that everyone was not there yet, so I went back to the hotel to change clothes. When I came back, they had already taken the photo. They said that the chairman was not there, and they did not see him or pay attention to him.None of them would care if I took this photo.
Tencent News "Innovators":Even if they knew you wouldn't mind?
Ning Gaoning:I was actually very happy, because I felt that they didn’t need me. Later, when I ran over, they said that the chairman was here, so we should take another photo. Soon after the photo was taken, they dispersed. You can see that in that photo, I was not standing in the front, nor in the middle, but standing at the side and at the back. I waved my hand at the end and took the photo. Later, they often joked about this photo, saying that they didn’t know where I was.
In fact, your role in the team is just that you play a role. You only need to speak up when a core role is most needed. This is a responsibility. Chinese companies may also need to make adjustments slowly in this way.Because China is basically a bureaucratic system, the chairman is very important, he has the final say, and everyone in the company revolves around him. He not only has the final say in the company, but he is the most powerful everywhere. If you want to build an innovative and dynamic organization, I think it should not be like this.
Tencent News "Innovators":You often mentioned human feeling. It seems like metaphysics. Is human feeling intuition? If you use human feeling when you meet someone for the first time, and if you have used this person for two or three years, can you still use human feeling to judge whether this person is suitable for you?
Ning Gaoning:This is not metaphysics, I think it is a matter of judgment. To select people, you need to have a sense of people, a sense of other people's feelings, a sense of your expectations of this person, and a sense of his characteristics and potential. This sense does not take too much time.
In addition, if you have been in contact for two or three years, do you still feel it? Yes. Leaders should lead others in turn. You also need to move people, move people, influence people, and inspire people to walk with you. Leadership,Whether it is the so-called chairman, general manager, or even a small manager, the only thing they need is leadership.Some people say that leadership is mainly about strategy, vision, foresight, and responsibility. Of course, it is best to be organized, foresighted, and responsible.
The reason I say this is because I have made a lot of mistakes.
Tencent News "Innovators":Can you describe these errors?
Ning Gaoning:There are too many. For example, when I was at COFCO, there were many times. It has been a long time, because some people are still here, I won’t mention the specific names. You think he is doing well, and you promote him after he is doing well. After he is promoted to a certain position, he is not doing well. You did not judge why he was doing well at that time. At the beginning, I thought he had potential. But it didn’t work, so I changed him. What is the most difficult thing?The hardest thing is to replace the person you promoted.
Tencent News "Innovators":Does it mean that we can predict that this person can get things done, and that his growth must be stable and sustainable?
Ning Gaoning:My expectation and prediction for people is that they are the kind of people who love to explore, love to learn, are more enthusiastic, and are more willing to unite others. They must also be very persistent and have these qualities.
Tencent News "Innovators":One of the most important principles in your management system is that “people are everything in management.” When was this principle formed? How do you understand it?
Ning Gaoning:The phrase “people are everything in management” was actually said after I joined COFCO. After that, the professor of Guanghua School of Management at Peking University wrote it on the cover of the textbook. Why “people are everything in management resources”? All management is about people. When it comes to finance, strategy, and products, it all starts with organization. We all assume that there is organization.
If you look at Drucker's management theory, he talks about people. He doesn't talk about anything else. He basically talks about organization, people, the system, creation and innovation. Basically, it is about people's enthusiasm, efficiency and creativity.
Tencent News "Innovators":I see that you are very willing to try new things and use ChatGPT. Do you search for strategies? If he gives you an answer, will you agree with it?
Ning Gaoning:I searched the word "strategy" many times in various versions. I asked how to implement strategy and execution. I waited for a long time. It said that this was too brain-burning and that I could only answer questions within 2,000 or 1,000 words. This question could not be answered.
Because it is generative, if it tells me that the strategy is useless, or that the strategy should be implemented differently from what others say, I think this AI has an idea.
Tencent News "Innovators":I think when AI develops to a higher stage, AI will become the gateway to everything. For example, you can say to your phone: I am going to Shanghai for a business meeting next Thursday. Give it a voice command, and it will arrange everything like a personal secretary.
Ning Gaoning:It is possible, yes, we can make the best arrangement. I believe this will take time, just like an autonomous driving, it is not a problem with the car, it is a problem with the road. For example, the current road cannot be driven by an autonomous driving, I believe this is a difficulty, anyway, this exploration is very good.
Previous Series
Collect and organize the latest news information and make it available for free for everyone to read
