I conducted a small-scale survey of former employees of large Internet companies.
2024-07-18
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Last week I was in Shenzhen and had two important gains: first, I conducted a field survey of the legendary "Sanhe God" (although it was only a glimpse), and second, I had in-depth conversations with several friends who had resigned (or were planning to resign) from major Internet companies. The latter was actually part of the research I have been doing in the past few months: in the current macro and workplace environment,What do people who leave Internet giants do? What are the main reasons that prompt them to leave? More importantly, what are they thinking?
I have been collecting information in this area through daily WeChat chats; I often talk about these topics when I meet with friends offline. The last time I went to Shenzhen, I obtained quite valuable information, which can be regarded as supporting a meaningful survey. Of course, this survey is still small-scale, involving only a few dozen people (only a dozen people actually resigned). Due to the limited number of samples, it is impossible to use statistical methods, and case analysis can only be used. However, I am lucky to have an advantage: these friends trust me more and are willing to tell their own stories and ideas (provided that their personal privacy is guaranteed). So I heard a lot of fresh stories and real ideas, which may not be recognized or ignored by the outside world.I decided to write down what I have learned so far. I welcome people with similar experiences or ideas to share their stories with me in various ways. This is a long-term, ongoing survey, and it is necessary to continue as long as the resignation wave of Internet giants continues. I also hope to play a role in "starting a discussion" and witness the birth of more valuable research on this topic.Reasons for leaving the companyThere are only two reasons why workers leave their jobs: forced and voluntary. Being laid off directly is of course forced; being transferred to a new position with a pay cut, humiliating treatment, and leaving voluntarily because of the overload is also forced. Since 2023, the cost reduction and efficiency improvement of large Internet companies have intensified, and more and more people have been mentally prepared. More than one employee of a large company told me that he or she "will be laid off within a quarter", because the layoffs of various departments and teams are almost public, and many people know that they cannot escape, and they meekly wait for the final outcome (and N+1).
However, many people still choose to resign on their own initiative. The younger people seem to be more inclined to resign on their own initiative - at least among the people I know. Employees born in the 1990s and 1995s attach more importance to dignity and work atmosphere, and are more willing to "quit without a job" without a new one. Here are some reasons for "quitting without a job" that I have heard personally:
- The company deducts the entire day's salary from employees who call in sick, and their direct supervisors have no sympathy at all.
- Direct supervisors frequently engage in PUA on employees, such as "Think carefully whether you are worthy of the salary the company pays."
- My team requires me to work meaningless overtime, and I have to sit in the office until 11 o'clock at night even if there is nothing to do.
- He has lost confidence in the big boss (company executive) in charge of his department, and believes that the company is rotten and is just a remnant of its former self.
- Dissatisfied with the overall conditions of the company cafeteria, fitness center or office space, believing that it has harmed their health.
Some of the above reasons are like fairy tales to employees born in the 1980s or older; it is even more incomprehensible to the boss. Employees born in the 1980s rarely quit their jobs for any reason, not only because of different concepts, but also because they have elderly parents and young children to take care of, and it is difficult to find a new job at their age, so they can't afford to quit their jobs. Considering that the proportion of employees born after 1995 (or even after 2000) in the grassroots of large companies is increasing, workplace PUA as a means of controlling employees is rapidly becoming ineffective. From the perspective of workers as a whole, this is certainly an improvement, but the bosses and HR certainly have the opposite view.The meaningless continuation of involutionSince 2021, some departments of some large companies have successively put forward slogans such as "reducing the frequency of overtime" and even "anti-involution". But as far as I know, these slogans are just posturing. Among the people I surveyed, almost no one believes that the involution of large companies has loosened in the past two years, and no one expects that there will be substantial loosening in the future. Many people have chosen to leave the Internet industry because they are completely disappointed with involution.Specifically, there are two types of involution in the Internet industry:The first is the involution for the purpose of gaining wealth and status, which can be called "upward involution"；The second type is the internal circulation that is aimed at keeping one’s job, which can be called “self-preservation internal circulation.”In the golden age of China's Internet, a large number of workers voluntarily joined the first type of involution, looking forward to promotions, salary increases and stock appreciation. The best among them can even leap into the ranks of financial freedom. According to an old friend of mine who I have known for many years, "Everyone works overtime until the early morning every day. You have to believe that the working people can always create miracles." (This conversation took place at the end of 2018.) The most powerful driving force of human beings always comes from the heart, either from greed or from fear; in the context of the overall sluggishness of the Internet and capital markets, greed is no longer enough to drive workers forward, and now fear has become the main driving force.Most of my friends who work in large companies have mentioned "fear-based" or "performance-based" overtime: because of the fear of losing their jobs, they are forced to pretend to work hard in front of their superiors. This has led to a paradox - there is actually not as much work as before, and the treatment is not as good as before, but overtime has become more intense. Some more humane team leaders, under pressure from their superiors, have to ask employees to extend their working hours, and even developed the acting skills of "taking turns to work overtime": at least one person stays on duty until midnight every day to deal with the superiors' irregular inspections.What do the superiors and even the big bosses think? Do they really believe that overtime improves productivity, or do they use it as a "compliance test" tool, or just use it as an excuse to lay off employees? This is unknown, because even if they are surveyed, they will not tell the truth. Here I would like to point out another perspective: the growth rate of China's Internet giants is too fast, and there is no time to form a good and modern management system. To be precise, the entire private enterprise sector in China is still relatively backward in terms of management system. When encountering structural problems, they cannot solve the problems in a scientific way, and can only resort to simple and crude compliance mechanisms. Just like those middle schools with average teaching standards, in order to improve the enrollment rate, they can only indiscriminately enforce attendance and housekeeping. Although the effect is extremely poor, it is their only choice.
Where do employees who left the company go?Traditionally, Internet giants, financial institutions, and foreign companies are all high-income industries where highly educated young people gather; now all three are experiencing layoffs and salary cuts. In the past few waves of Internet recruitment downturns, employees who left actually had many choices, but this wave is very different! When a person just leaves a large company, whether forced or voluntarily, the first thing he thinks of may be "relaxing", such as going on a trip or going home to lie down for a while; after more than a month, he must seriously consider the issue of his future livelihood. Even those who have saved a lot of money while working in large companies and are not worried about their livelihood for the time being cannot bear the risk of being out of touch with the industry due to being away from the workplace for a long time. From my observation, their most mainstream choices are as follows:
- The majority of people stay in the Internet industry. If they cannot return to large companies, they will go to small and medium-sized companies or start-ups. Many people will "hibernate" in small companies, waiting for an opportunity to return to large companies.
- I was a little surprised that a high proportion of people take civil service exams after leaving their jobs; however, there are also many who regret it immediately after getting the job.
- "Returning to hometown" is certainly an option, but it is not a real choice; after "returning to hometown", one can either take the civil service exam or look for a local company to become one's successor.
- Digital nomadism is also a popular and increasingly popular option, which we will discuss in detail in the next section.
Let’s talk about the first one first. Most employees who leave large companies would prefer to stay in the Internet industry unless they are completely tired of it. Young employees who are committed to “anti-involution” and “anti-PUA” are also more inclined to find a less involutionary company in the Internet industry; because they are clearly aware that involution and PUA in other industries may be more serious, so they choose the lesser of two evils. The Internet industry is very large, and there are always slightly better companies and teams, provided that you have to look for them patiently. Some people who have left large companies for more than half a year may not necessarily be unable to find a next job, but that it is difficult to find a next job that meets their requirements.From the outside, AI startups should be able to provide many new jobs - but that is just an illusion. Most domestic AI startups are still short of money. A lot of the investment they get is provided in the form of computing power, and their main business profitability is far away, so everyone from top to bottom dares not spend money. Frankly speaking, the current AI startup boom in China is far inferior to the mobile Internet startup boom many years ago, and the ability to attract investment and employment is incomparable. As far as I know, there are more employees of large companies who leave to go overseas than those who go to do AI. If you are a basic R&D talent, it is another matter; now the easiest people to find a job in the entire domestic technology circle may be AI basic R&D talents (but the proportion of these people is quite low).
Let's talk about the second point. There are actually quite a few people who quit big companies to take the civil service exam. According to a friend in Shenzhen, "Maybe half of the people sitting in the Nanshan study every day are people who quit big companies to prepare for the civil service exam" (certainly a slight exaggeration). Civil servants in first-tier cities are paid very well, but it is difficult to pass the exam, and local hukou is required; therefore, most people who take the civil service exam will return to their hometown first, so that they can also use their local social connections. Considering their original intelligence and talents, if they are willing to work hard again, the probability of passing the exam is actually not small (depending on the specific position); and the proportion of people who immediately regret passing the exam is also not small.
A friend told me a vivid case (not him): he passed the civil service exam once and was employed in a provincial capital city, but his income was reduced to one-fourth of that in a large company, and the key point was that the work was still very tiring. On Xiaohongshu, Bilibili and Zhihu, people always imagine that they can "lie down and get paid" after they get employed, or even blatantly work hard; but most civil service positions cannot do this, and the few that can do this are very difficult to enter. As for the so-called "social status" and "career" imagined by the public who take the civil service exam, it is even more of a pipe dream for most ordinary civil servants. This huge gap is likely to prevent more employees of large companies from taking the civil service exam. Of course, there is another reason: people who leave their jobs after the age of 35 can no longer choose to take the civil service exam, while people under the age of 30 always want to take a look at more opportunities; the age range of those who really choose to take the civil service exam is very narrow.
More than one friend who is still working in a large company told me that once they quit their job, they would choose to go back to their hometown and “lay low”, relying entirely on their past savings and family connections to make a living, and find a leisurely job or small business locally. But in reality, I have not seen anyone who has actually quit their job make such a choice. This may be because the material conditions do not allow it, or it may be because of the concept; this is an intriguing topic, but unfortunately it is beyond the scope of this article.
“Digital Nomad"Ideal and realityI have indeed come into contact with quite a few people who have resigned from large companies to become "digital nomads." The earliest gathering place for digital nomads was Dali (and it still is), followed by Anji in the Yangtze River Delta and Huizhou in the Pearl River Delta. Broadly speaking, digital nomads are divided into two types: the first type is people who have so-called "formal work units" but whose superiors allow them to complete their work remotely; the second type is self-employed or freelancers. The vast majority of digital nomads are the second type, especially after everyone took off their masks, and there are fewer and fewer "formal units" that allow long-term remote work, and those who want to maintain the lifestyle of digital nomads often have to be self-employed.
Dali has become the center of digital nomads not only because of its beautiful scenery and good infrastructure, but also because it has formed a community and cultural atmosphere for digital nomads. Many employees who have resigned from large companies will choose to go to Dali for "body, mind and spirit training" to try to repair the trauma caused by high-intensity work and find a lifestyle that suits them. Due to the low cost of living in Dali, even people without a source of income can live there for a long time, but they are not "digital nomads". Some of those who really become digital nomads will live in Dali for a long time, while others will regard it as a transit station; it is difficult to judge which ratio is higher.
There seem to be many ways for digital nomads to make money, but the most mainstream ones are nothing more than three:
- Some people can become bloggers (self-media) and start their own business from this path.
- Taking outsourcing orders is especially suitable for technical workers such as programmers.
- Make investments or financial transactions.
The platform that former employees of large companies most often try out is Xiaohongshu - "resigned bloggers" have even become a popular track on Xiaohongshu. Of course, former employees can be bloggers in various tracks, depending on their own resource endowments. In addition to Xiaohongshu, many people will also choose Douyin; there are also some who choose the WeChat ecosystem (official account + video account + WeChat group). The above choices are easy to understand: Xiaohongshu's community tone and user portrait are very consistent with the personality of former employees of large companies, and in recent years it has also acquired certain monetization capabilities; Douyin has the largest and most comprehensive traffic base, and the threshold for commercial order monetization is extremely low; WeChat Video Account is the only content platform that is still experiencing explosive growth, and it has a natural advantage in private domain operations.However, most bloggers will encounter the problem of "too many people and too little porridge": more and more people are becoming bloggers, but the budget plate from advertisers has not increased (or even decreased); as for knowledge payment, the plate is even smaller, and its application is very narrow. The more successful bloggers I know, whether as a main business or a side job, basically started before 2022, and many of them started before 2020. Those who belatedly become bloggers in 2024 will have to spend ten or a hundred times more effort than at the beginning to accumulate the most basic fan plate; as for monetization, it is a long way off. Therefore, for employees of large companies who have recently resigned and lack self-media accumulation, it is difficult for bloggers to become a reasonable option.
It is relatively easy to receive outsourcing orders, because you do not need to bring your own traffic, you only need to have technical strength and experience. These people are also facing the dilemma of declining demand, because outsourcing demand follows the macro environment; because I do not understand technology, I have no specific say on this issue. As for investment or financial transactions, many people have made money by speculating in US stocks or virtual assets in the past two years. If you have enough capital and have a stable channel for investing in overseas assets, you can indeed use this as an economic foundation (it is difficult to say how long it can last). Please note that in any case, speculating in A shares is not a reasonable choice. Fortunately, Internet giants are mainly listed on the US and Hong Kong stock markets, and their employees generally have a broad international perspective, and very few people bet on A shares.
It can be seen that: adding up the above three methods, the number of digital nomads that can be accommodated is still very small. The era of mobile Internet traffic blowout has passed. Weibo fifteen years ago, Douyu/Huya ten years ago, Douyin six years ago, Xiaohongshu/Bilibili four years ago, and WeChat Video Account two years ago were all very friendly to new bloggers. It was easy to get a large amount of traffic and establish user minds - those were the good old days! The fullness of outsourcing orders ultimately depends on the intensity of "pan-information technology needs" such as software development. Even if this demand does not decline fundamentally, there is not much room for its increase. As for investment, it is essentially "living by the weather". No serious middle-class family will regard it as the main source of income - unless there is already a lot of capital.
The “de-elitism” of Internet giantsIf you have seen photos of the founding team and key business teams in the early stage of the rapid growth of the Internet industry more than ten or twenty years ago (such photos are very easy to find), you will find that they have no "elite style" at all. From their demeanor, clothing to their working environment, they are saturated with a "rustic" atmosphere. Even when the first generation of Internet giants have generally been listed and the salary and benefits are not low, the Internet still cannot compare with the so-called "elite industries" such as finance and management consulting. Some people have indeed missed billions because of this. I know more than one friend who gave up the opportunity to join an early Internet company. They explained helplessly that they chose to give up not because of the salary, but because "this industry looks too low-key."
However, the continuous development of the Internet industry in the past decade or so has made the industry more and more "elitist", or as the saying goes, "high-class". Friends from more than one large game company complained to me that the upper management is increasingly "investment banking-like" in recruiting people, and after seeing the resume of a job seeker, "I can't tell whether he is applying for a Goldman Sachs banker position or a game planning position". A friend from a larger Internet giant said that they have indeed recruited many elites from Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, McKinsey, and BCG (and even more from other units), who are adapting to the industry while changing the culture of the industry. Most of the "jargon" and "unhuman language" of many Internet companies circulating on the Internet actually come from these "elite Internet employees" rather than "native Internet employees".
The "elitism" of the Internet industry is not only reflected in mid- and back-end positions such as strategy, investment, and finance, but also in some front-end positions, especially business analysis. For example, a "business analysis-driven" company like Meituan has recruited a large number of business analysis from securities companies. At the end of last year, a friend of mine almost went there (but it didn't happen in the end). As for Tencent, Alibaba, ByteDance and other large companies, they are not much behind. Business analysis with investment banking, investment or consulting backgrounds can be found in all their business teams. Even among those who are recruited from campus, there are many graduates who come from business schools, step on the rhythm of entering investment banks or MBB during school, and are full of elite aura. How much role they play is a topic of different opinions; the fact that their number is increasing is an indisputable fact.Now it seems that the tide has turned. According to a large-scale analyst (with an investment banking and consulting background) who thought he would be laid off at any time, "My company doesn't have that much money anymore and can't afford such an expensive analyst like me." The friend described above who almost joined Meituan did not go in the end because the salary was far below expectations - as for whether those who jumped from securities companies in the early years and had higher salaries had their salaries reduced, it is unknown. By the way, this friend finally chose to jump to a smaller securities company and continue to do his original job.Under this situation, the proportion of talents with "elite background" in the Internet industry will not necessarily decrease, because elites do not have many good opportunities, and joining large Internet companies is still an attractive option. However, the "elitism" of the working environment of large Internet companies will inevitably be put on the brakes. The friend above said it very well, "there is not so much money", and "elitism" must be based on a large amount of spare money. If this trend continues, we may also see the decline of "big company jargon" and even the resurgence of "rustic atmosphere". However, in any case, the Internet industry cannot return to the "low-key state" of many years ago, because it is already too big and too important.
As mentioned above: Internet giants, financial institutions (mainly securities firms/investment banks and funds), and high-end foreign companies are the three most densely populated types of highly educated middle-class white-collar workers, and are also the places where the dream of "working to get rich" is most likely to be realized. However, there are significant differences between them - financial institutions and high-end foreign companies are two relatively closed circles, employing a limited number of white-collar workers, and their own business evolution is relatively slow; Internet giants are extremely open and volatile, and the scale of white-collar employees is also an order of magnitude higher. Although there is no difference between Old Money and New Money in contemporary China, perhaps a less rigorous conclusion can be drawn: financial institutions and high-end foreign companies are more like Old Money, and Internet giants are more like New Money.
Therefore, in the same context of slowing industry growth, layoffs and salary cuts, employees of large Internet companies (regardless of whether they have already resigned) have shown a significantly stronger willingness to take the initiative and seek innovation and change. This "seeking innovation and change" does not mean "involution" - many employees who have resigned from large companies are pioneers in anti-involution; it is more like an exploratory attitude of "what kind of life do I want to live?" The so-called involution is essentially giving up the power to set one's own life path and running endlessly on the track set by others; employees of large Internet companies used to be the most powerful group of involution, and now some of them have become the first and most thorough ones to give up involution.Although employees of large companies often ridicule themselves for "having a factory flavor" and "falling into the vanity trap of large companies", their mentality is still much more open and pragmatic than those working in the financial industry or foreign companies. In other words, they are far less immersed in "professional style" and have a much more flexible attitude towards the future. Most of them do not have the air of self-pity, let alone impotent rage (even if they have just lost their jobs or are likely to lose their jobs); even those who claim to be "lying flat" are often full of vitality. This may just be a deviation in my research scope, but this vitality gives me hope - whether they are working or leaving, Internet practitioners are generally not associated with the word "dead", and they can always come up with new ideas and try new ways of living.This is why I like to study the Internet industry, and it is also the reason why I still recommend young people to join the Internet industry (I am a young person myself, both in terms of mentality and physical age).
