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i am afraid of holidays, because i have nowhere to go and can only drink tea, watch tv and sleep at home, so i am very sad during holidays. the mid-autumn festival holiday is coming soon, and i don’t know where to go.

——ren zhengfei

thomas friedman: thank you very much! i had a great time at huawei today and had a great time communicating with the huawei team. this morning's experience is enough to write a book. i have said to your colleagues before that there are two stories going on in the world right now: one is the trade dispute between the united states and china; the other is the story between huawei and the united states. from my personal point of view, the importance of the story between huawei and the united states is higher than the importance of the sino-us trade war.

ren zhengfei: i am flattered.

thomas friedman: there will definitely be a solution to the sino-us trade war, such as china importing more american soybeans and the united states buying more chinese products. but in my opinion, because of what huawei represents, the story between huawei and the united states is actually more important.

ren zhengfei: we can actually find ways to solve the problem. for example, huawei can buy more qualcomm chips, intel chips, google software, and microsoft software, or huawei can support the research of american university professors without obtaining their research results. these methods can help us solve the problem and ease the conflict between us.

thomas friedman: that's the question i want to ask. in my opinion, over the past thirty years, most of the trade between china and the united states has been superficial goods, such as the clothes we wear and the shoes on our feet.but what huawei represents is that the 5g technology you sell to the united states is no longer a superficial commodity, but a "deep commodity."you are now at the forefront of china, and many of the technologies you develop will actually penetrate into the streets, homes, and bedrooms of the united states, and will involve personal privacy. this is a new thing.

speaking of "deep trade", the reason why we can sell this kind of "deep technology" to china is because you have no choice. we have these technologies, and if you want to get these technologies, you have to buy them from microsoft or apple. now china also wants to sell "deep technology" to the us market, because "deep technology" is advanced technology, and the united states has not yet established the trust required for "deep trade" with you. for this reason, in my opinion, either solve the huawei problem or globalization will be divided.

ren zhengfei: first, we have no plans to sell equipment to the united states, so deep-seated conflicts have not yet arisen. second, we can transfer all 5g technology and process secrets to american companies to help the united states build a 5g industry, so that china, the united states, and europe can form a triangular balance system. we are willing to do this, but the united states must accept it.

thomas friedman: let's talk about this topic. this is a very interesting proposal. in this case, is it possible that cisco can obtain all of huawei's 5g production processes and software through a license? can american companies use huawei technology to build the us 5g network based on a license? in this way, the united states will not worry about huawei spying on the united states.

ren: yes. it doesn't have to be cisco. amazon is also very good and very rich. apple is also ok.

thomas l. friedman: very interesting. mr. ren, this is a very important proposal. have you proposed this publicly before?

ren zhengfei: now we are talking to each other, isn't it in public? i will provide you with the first one.

thomas l. friedman: you haven't talked to any american companies about this proposal yet?

ren zhengfei: yes.

thomas l. friedman: so our next question is, would you consider listing huawei on the nyse or nasdaq to address the transparency issue?

ren zhengfei: what i just said is not that we are going to the united states to do business, but that we are supporting american companies to do business in the united states by transferring technology. in this way, after we provide a 5g basic platform, american companies can strive for 6g based on this technology. second, the united states can modify the 5g platform to achieve its own security. it will not be successful to skip 5g and go directly to 6g, because the millimeter wave transmission range of 6g is too short, so it is difficult to build a 6g network, and it will take ten years.

thomas l. friedman: interesting. if amazon or microsoft wanted to do this, they could just pay huawei a licensing fee? is that right?

ren zhengfei: yes.it would be best if they could buy me over there too. my salary would be a little less than cook’s. i’m so envious of the high salaries in the united states.

thomas l. friedman: speaking of this, i happen to be in huawei. is it possible to buy a share of huawei stock?

ren zhengfei:no, because you are not a huawei employee. only huawei employees can buy it. but i welcome you to join huawei.

thomas friedman: i learned from my conversation with huawei colleagues today that if huawei can participate in the construction of 5g networks through market competition, it can help the united states save $240 billion in 5g network construction costs. if huawei cannot participate in the competition for the us 5g network, what will the united states lose?

ren zhengfei: i just said that we agreed to transfer 5g technology to american companies. the 240 billion yuan was earned by american companies, not us.

thomas l. friedman: when i talked to some chinese people before, they were very proud of huawei. are you like a rock star in china? do people on the street and in restaurants treat you like a star, like steve jobs and bill gates?

ren zhengfei:actually, i am very pitiful. when i go out on the street, people will take pictures of me. i lack freedom. i don’t have a private jet like foreign stars. i can’t go anywhere to have fun and avoid the public’s view. i don’t even have a place to drink coffee. i am afraid of holidays. i have nowhere to go. i can only drink tea, watch tv and sleep at home. so i feel very sad during holidays. the mid-autumn festival holiday is coming soon, and i don’t know where to go.

thomas l. friedman: what do people say to you when you're caught on the street?

ren zhengfei: they said they wanted to take a picture with me and post it online. so i had no privacy at all. people knew where i went. they were not only satisfied with taking pictures, but also posting them online. i was like a "mouse" that couldn't find a "hole" to get into.

thomas friedman: i find it very interesting that there has never been a company like huawei in history that people have such strong and contradictory feelings about. some people say huawei is a great company and love it. some people say huawei is a dangerous company that engages in espionage. why is there such a strong contrast?

ren zhengfei: because there are always two extremes in the world. if those who say "huawei is a great company" don't say so, and those who say huawei is a little squirrel with a big tail are false, then those who say "huawei is a dangerous company" will not say it is dangerous.in the two competitions, whoever speaks more extremely will attract more attention.

thomas l. friedman: who are your role models in technology? bill gates, steve jobs, gordon moore, robert noyce, or jeff bezos? who do you look up to as a role model?

ren zhengfei: i have admired them since i was young, including great scientists such as einstein and turing. when i was young, the learning environment in china was relatively closed, and i could not see the whole world, but i have always admired these people very much, because they have created huge development opportunities for human society.

thomas l. friedman: as moore's law approaches its limit, what is the next frontier for huawei to research? is it 6g or basic scientific research? what is the next big mountain you want to climb?

ren zhengfei: artificial intelligence.

thomas l. friedman: can you explain in detail why artificial intelligence is the next big mountain for huawei to climb? what will huawei do?

ren zhengfei: we are building a platform to support artificial intelligence.

thomas l. friedman: when you say platform, are you talking about a software platform?

ren zhengfei: hardware and software platforms. our ascend ai cluster has 1,024 nodes, which is currently the world's largest and fastest ai platform. we do not develop various ai application functions ourselves, but provide a platform to enable ai for the whole society.

thomas friedman: are there any competitors of huawei that are also developing the same fast ai engine? is huawei a latecomer or a leader in this field?

ren zhengfei: google and nvidia can do the same thing, but we are currently doing it better.

thomas friedman: what impact will the very powerful ai engine have in the next decade? how will society change?

ren zhengfei:our production line can produce a high-performance mobile phone in 20 seconds, and basically no manpower is required on the production line.if you have time, you can go and visit it.

thomas friedman: what about the future? will a mobile phone be produced every two seconds?

ren zhengfei: the future will be even better, with fewer workers and more advanced production. but it won’t be as short as two seconds.

thomas friedman: incredible.

thomas friedman: looking at the current situation in the united states, the us president said "don't let huawei in", "let american companies withdraw from the chinese market", and "i will win and you will lose anyway". what do you think of us?

ren zhengfei: the conclusion is the opposite. the united states will lose.

thomas friedman: why and how did we lose?

ren zhengfei: how can the united states win if it withdraws from globalization? the united states has many cutting-edge science and technology, and is at the forefront of the world. just like the "snow" on the himalayas, the snow must flow down to irrigate the surrounding fields, produce crops, and get a share from the crops. only then is the snow meaningful. if the united states does not allow the snow on the top of the mountain to melt and flow down, american companies on the top of the mountain will be very cold. employees need to eat. if they don't go to irrigate the farmland to get a share, how can they buy steaks? the advantage of the united states is high technology. if high technology is not sold to others, the united states' international trade will not be balanced. how can americans raise their wages?

thomas friedman: is it possible that due to the current situation there will be a digital berlin wall and anti-globalization?

ren zhengfei: it is possible.if the us government insists on doing this, a digital berlin wall will appear. the market share of us companies that dominate the world will drop from global market share to only 1/2, so they will have to tighten their financial statements and lay off employees, and the lives of americans will become more difficult, not better.

thomas friedman: if google does not sell or license android to huawei, microsoft does not sell windows to huawei, and intel does not sell chips to huawei, it will not be a trivial matter for these workers and companies and will have a huge impact.

ren zhengfei: yes, finances will shrink.

thomas l. friedman: whether it is artificial intelligence or next-generation technology, it can be said that they are natural extensions of huawei's existing business map. are there some that are not directly related to huawei's current business layout?

ren zhengfei: we don't have the time or resources to solve it. we need to mend the wounds and holes caused by the us entity list. this is our top priority, not to do anything else. we are like this broken plane, which has been riddled with holes. we must mend the holes, otherwise we won't be able to fly back.

thomas friedman: i can't wait to go to hong kong and share the news with the world.

ren: i think something will happen after your information is forwarded. the united states is a world leader in artificial intelligence, and its supercomputers are the most advanced in the world. the united states has super data storage capabilities, but there must be a high-speed connection between the two. if you take the ordinary "highway", the car will be useless when it arrives.

thomas friedman: is this why we need 5g?

ren zhengfei: yes. we need to connect them with optical fiber and 5g, both of which are in short supply in the united states. the united states is pinning its hopes on 6g, and huawei's 6g research is also leading the world, but we believe that 6g may not be officially put into use until ten years later. the united states should not miss the opportunity to develop artificial intelligence in the past ten years. the development speed of artificial intelligence is doubling every 3-4 months, so we have to catch up. i may not be here by the time i catch up, but human society will not stop developing because of my presence or absence.

thomas l. friedman: what you mean is that if the united states doesn't allow huawei in, they won't be able to run fast?

ren zhengfei: yes.

thomas friedman: i am very happy to be the link for huawei to convey information to the outside world. thank you! (on the eve of the mid-autumn festival in 2019)