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last week, lebanon suffered a series of horrific large-scale explosions of communication equipment, causing nearly 3,000 casualties. us media said that the relevant equipment was a "modern trojan horse" made in israel and was part of a long-planned complex attack plan against hezbollah.

this horrific indiscriminate attack on civilians and armed personnel has crossed the bottom line of international rules on armed conflict mostly established by western countries, and has made societies in countries where electronic products are deeply rooted in daily life shudder.

observer.com had an online conversation with deborah venezuelanziar, an american editor and researcher at the tricontinental: institute for social research, to exchange her views on the attack and her criticism of the israeli government and u.s. policies.

screenshot of the video of guanchazhe.com's conversation with ms. deborah venezuelanziar

[compiled by guo han from observer.com]

observer.com: can you describe your first reaction after learning about the attack?

venezuelan ziar:at first i was shocked. this indiscriminate attack was absolutely appalling. but the next moment i realized that it was not that shocking. in my opinion, israel has always been a terrorist state. the whole reason for the existence of this regime is to inflict terror on the palestinians, to help protect american oil interests in the middle east, and to serve as a bridgehead and armed buffer for imperialism.

we can talk for a long time about how jews were discriminated against all over the world and should have their own homeland. but it is not true. i am also a jew, and there are many jews in the diaspora who share the same religion with me (israelthis attack has shown us clearly what they are doing, which is to continue to bring death and destruction to the peoples of the region.

after this, people should no longer be shocked by what israel does. zionists have been killing palestinians and anyone who tries to get in their way since they set foot on this land. these people were best trained in america because americans figured out how to enslave millions of black people and become the most powerful country in the world. they created israel.

therefore, we should not be shocked anymore. what we should do now is not to emphasize our feelings, but to start taking action and launch a real propaganda offensive against that terrorist country.

observer.com: in your opinion, what actions can be taken to express condemnation of this attack?

venezuelan ziar:in addition to organizing unions and student movements, there are many ways to fight. i think the country that best represents the progressive position of the world today is china, and china has also clearly expressed its opposition to terrorist attacks, which is very important. let's not talk about requiring any country to take any action or support any side. but the best way for countries to maintain world peace is to stand up firmly and decisively and tell people who truly love peace that such behavior is unacceptable.

i also want to take this opportunity to communicate with chinese readers and call on everyone that working people around the world should unite to support the palestinian people. we need a leader. although every country has its own leaders and progressive groups, china is the most representative leader. in this struggle, china's voice is very important. china represents an alternative to the impact of the united states on the world, obviously, an alternative that is not based on exploitation and advocates equality and social inclusion.

if we look at the problem from this perspective, why is israel becoming more and more aggressive? they have been launching terrorist attacks against palestinians and other countries in the middle east on a regular basis in the past, why is the intensity and frequency increased now, and even such vicious and terrible indiscriminate attacks on civilians in lebanon?

on september 18, local time, a wounded man underwent surgery after a pager exploded at a hospital in beirut, lebanon. reuters

if the united states, through israel, fails to stabilize the situation in the middle east, other countries in the world, including china, will be powerless. china cannot intervene in this conflict. china's most important role in the world today is to maintain peace, which is not an easy task, especially since the united states continues to use tensions everywhere to create panic. they prevent people from realizing the real goal by demanding obedience and humiliating people, which is to weaken china's influence. in the global south, china provides a complete set of alternatives from politics, society to economy. i call it an "end-to-end supply chain solution", which is particularly important for the world.

this is the real struggle, and what happened in lebanon is just one manifestation of it. what the united states does in the middle east is to tell the global progressive movement, china, and the local people that israel is an agent of the united states and will do whatever it takes to protect the interests of the united states.

guanchazhe.com: how do you view the indiscriminate harm to civilians in this bombing, which broke the international rules of armed conflict (including the protection and identification of civilians) established mostly by western countries? what consequences will this have?

venezuelan ziar:the atrocities committed by the israeli government are so brutal that they go far beyond the line, whether you believe there is such a line or not. in fact, in many capitals, there is a certain level of acceptance of atrocities committed by other countries. what israel is doing to the palestinians has seriously crossed the line.

the idf has made it abundantly clear that its goal today is to annihilate palestine and, in so doing, subjugate the rest of the middle east. while pockets of resistance remain in the middle east, and young people around the world are speaking out against it, in the global north people are largely silent.

the united states established a "rules-based order" after world war ii, but it does not want to abide by any rules set by other countries, because it believes that it has the right not to abide by them, and that other countries should abide by the rules of the united states. some "rogue countries", especially israel, have been learning from the united states and breaking the rules in the name of the united states. the united states has been breaking the rules for a long time, and now when they talk about the "rules-based order", they can't even keep their words and deeds consistent.

the united states has created the conditions and provided the license for israel to break the rules all the time. for the israeli government, there are no rules. they can develop the most unexpected killing technology, including detonating pagers and walkie-talkies. i read an article in a western newspaper yesterday, and the author was actually proud of the attack launched by israel. the original words were: "this is a major development in the weaponization of electronic components. we are proud that our fellow israelis can develop this level of technology."

can you imagine developing a technology that kills civilians indiscriminately? what does that mean? it means that civilian lives don't matter (in the eyes of the developer). obviously, the israeli government wants to eliminate any resistance, especially palestinians, but also people from other countries in the middle east.

if we sit back and watch palestine being destroyed, israel will continue to push into lebanon, jordan, syria and saudi arabia. if we don't stop them, people all over the world will suffer. we must look at this issue from a strategic perspective.

observer.com: us mediaaccording to intelligence sourcesthey knew that israel had been planning such an attack for 15 years, but the us intelligence agencies were reluctant to take similar actions, citing the fear of "harming innocent people". what do you think of this view?

venezuelan ziar:the only thing the us does is to provide israel with money and weapons, and they think that this way their hands are not stained with blood, but this is a ridiculous excuse. the americans say israel is an ally, we need to support our allies, and what the allies do with us aid is none of our business. that is israel's foreign policy, not the us policy.

on september 21, 2024, local time, the israeli military announced that it would launch a new round of attacks on hezbollah targets in lebanon. visual china

israel is the equivalent of an american army deployed in the middle east. without the united states, there would be no israel, which receives more money from american "foreign aid" than any other country in the world. it is obvious that everything israel does is a reflection of american foreign policy.

that's the dilemma. americans are largely pro-israel, right? they still think that the jews were persecuted, that they're pitiful, that they deserve a homeland, and so on. and i say, my goodness, anti-semitism is so bad, and it has led to terrible consequences throughout history.

but if you go back a little further, jews once lived peacefully with arabs and muslims. jews and arabs are considered to be descendants of semites, but they believe in different gods. they can intermarry, promote ethnic integration, and have very similar religious laws. it is precisely because the relationship between the two was so close that the imperialists could not tolerate it, especially when the latter discovered oil in the middle east. so in the final analysis, this is a contradiction that imperialism has always faced, that is, the production relations cannot adapt to the development of productivity.

i was walking with my daughter yesterday, and she told me a story about the president of general motors, who was interviewed by the media. in a telephone conversation with people on wall street, he said that the united states could not win the economic war with china anyway and had to stop the competition. he believed that the united states should go back to the old path of developing manufacturing, working hard to develop heavy industry and improve productivity. but the united states will never reach the scale of china and can only keep catching up. so he believed that although the united states has a huge market, it can basically admit defeat. i thought at the time, wow, those ceos finally admitted the facts they once opposed.

i think the united states did realize that it could not compete with the chinese. it could not build factories like the chinese did. it lacked the relevant technology and skilled labor. the united states was left with only one choice, which was to develop the military industry. this is what we see today, the united states is highly imperialist and responds to various problems in the world in a militarized way.

observer.com: regarding this attack, if you have the opportunity to face the prime minister of israel and the next us president, what would you like to say to them?

venezuelan ziar:i don't think i can be too rude in front of the camera. i will say to netanyahu, history is not on your side, you are doomed to fail. the palestinians will win, and you will be swept into the ashes of history, the sooner the better.

as for the next president of the united states, one is a madman and the other is unclear. i have little to say to them, i would rather say to the working class of america: you belong to a class that has the power to change everything. if you unite, you can promote real change. bourgeois democracy has never belonged to you, has never provided you with any freedom, but has always been a tool to control you.

i implore the american working class to stop this, including by protesting. i also hope that people around the world will continue to support the palestinian struggle. but i believe that the american working class can truly end the slaughter of palestinians.

unless the united states takes action to build a more just society (i.e. a socialist society), and unless the working class gains state power and truly transforms the united states, this struggle will be difficult to win. i am not saying that the people of the global south cannot do it, they certainly can and will do it to save the palestinians, but the united states cannot do it now, and the american working class is unlikely to bring about change in the short term.

i think the only countries that can really play a role in this are the global north. in fact, it is the countries of the global north, especially the united states, that provide israel with all the resources to continue waging wars in the middle east. as long as this does not stop, you will not be able to stop the tragedy from happening. the palestinians will continue their struggle until the last moment, but unless the united states and western european countries change their social systems and social relations, this situation will continue.

we need to cut it off at the source. stopping the current israeli government does not solve the problem, because the united states will find and create the next israel. we must fight imperialism, otherwise these tragedies will continue to happen around the world. unfortunately, china is now seen as a thorn in the side of the united states. china is the hope of progressive people around the world. we look forward to china's leadership role and find inspiration from it.

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