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In February 2023, Zhong Shanshan visited the water source in Bazhong, Sichuan.

In September 2021, Zhong Shanshan visited the Daming Mountain Water Source in Nanning, Guangxi.

In August 2016, Zhong Shanshan visited the Linjiang water source in Jilin.

"Nongfu Spring is a household name and a celebrity brand. I believe many people are very familiar with it. But if you mention the founder of Nongfu Spring, does your mind go blank? Who is he? What does he look like? What did he do? Maybe because its founder is too low-key and rarely appears in public, there is always a sense of mystery about him, so people also label him in one way or another. But today we specially invited him to the scene of the "Dialogue" program to let him distinguish the authenticity of these labels. Let us welcome Mr. Zhong Shanshan, the founder of Nongfu Spring, with warm applause. Please come on stage."

Following the opening remarks by CCTV host Chen Weihong, Nongfu Spring founder Zhong Shanshan officially appeared on CCTV Finance Channel (CCTV-2)'s "Dialogue" program on the evening of August 10. In the program, he responded to issues of great public concern, such as the responsibilities of the richest man, corporate succession and inheritance, and cyberbullying.

Host: The last time we shook hands on the show was in 2005, and now twenty years have passed. In fact, during these twenty years, I still paid close attention to your movements, but it often made me very distressed. I searched and searched but still had no idea what Mr. Zhong was doing. What do you think is the biggest change in you in these twenty years?

Zhong Shanshan: I have a lot of white hair now. I think my knowledge has been broadened. I didn’t understand a lot of things before, but I have stepped into a lot of traps in the past 20 years. Those traps are actually valuable. The richness of life is created by stepping into traps one by one. Don’t think that you don’t step into traps or make mistakes. In fact, this is impossible.

Host: All experiences are actually wealth.

Zhong Shanshan: Yes.

Host: The halo that cannot be avoided about you is also related to wealth. Let’s take a look at the first label.

Host: I checked before the show, and it says that Mr. Zhong was on the list for the fourth time on March 25 this year, and then 450 billion was written behind your name, and you once again became the richest man in China. If you were here, and one day the name of the richest man in China was added with your own name, you would be very happy, right?

Zhong Shanshan: I live my life. I haven’t changed. I don’t feel that there has been any change in my life.

Host: We think this is a halo. For a person, especially a businessman, you have created so much wealth and made yourself the richest man. This is also very impressive.

Zhong Shanshan: If we look at wealth itself, we should see this kind of wealth as a reward from consumers or the market to an entrepreneur. But to be honest, this richest man has a negative connotation in our country.

Host: How do you put it?

Zhong Shanshan: Because we jumped from agricultural civilization to industrial civilization in one step, we shortened the three hundred or four hundred years in between to thirty or forty years. However, the enlightenment in this process, the understanding of wealth or wealth, the meaning, responsibility, value and behavior of wealth have not been fully interpreted.

Host: Do you feel wronged by the negative views on the richest man?

Zhong Shanshan: I don’t feel wronged, everything exists.

I now feel that this Internet storm, in particular, is a storm after all. It makes me rethink, and I really rethink. Where do I think the responsibility of the richest man lies? The richest man has responsibilities, because society’s requirements for you are different. If you do good things in order to let others know and see them, then it’s not okay, because you are hypocritical.

But after I became the richest man, the first criticism I received was about the 24,000 bottles of water. The 24,000 bottles of water were a kind of our system design. In fact, during the Wenchuan earthquake, we transported water to Chengdu, but all the transportation hubs in Chengdu were paralyzed. If we wanted to deliver water to the disaster relief site as soon as possible, we had to have authorization. So we set up a system that whenever there is a public crisis, the power to deliver water is delegated to each region. Then, after each region took this path, it took another step and delegated it to offices and distributors. 1,000 boxes were delivered to each distributor, and 1,000 boxes were 24,000 bottles. Although this system design was originally a good thing, it was also pulled out during the online controversy and criticized as a richest man. I think people don't understand our system.

Host: Everything exists for a reason.

Zhong Shanshan: There are some reasonable things and some unreasonable things, but for the unreasonable ones, you must work hard to make them reasonable.

Host: You mentioned some negative comments about the richest man, and that reminded me of one thing. Some people say that from a global perspective, the richest man in the United States makes rockets, while the richest man in China sells water, so they are more "watery."

Zhong Shanshan: I think this sentence is also very pertinent.

Host: That’s fair, I think it’s very cruel.

Zhong Shanshan: I sell water, I am more "watery", because if I am not "watery", then this "water" will not be water. I have read the biography of Elon Musk, the richest man in the United States. I think he is a very outstanding and talented entrepreneur. At the same time, the comparison between the two of us is very different. I wonder what I was doing at the age of 25? I went to elementary school for four years and worked as a farmer for 17 years. That's all my experience. When Elon Musk was 24 years old, he was already a doctoral student at Stanford University, but he went into business before he finished his doctorate. He did his ideal career. This is incomparable between the two people in terms of social evaluation. But as the richest man, the social responsibility can be compared, because wealth itself has social responsibility.

Host: He (the richest man) should give back more.

Zhong Shanshan: There are many different ways to give back. Elon Musk’s path is to create the boundaries of science and technology, but my experience is that of a farmer. I think more about farmers and what I can do within my knowledge. Although Musk has done something earth-shattering, I am not that great. But I think as a Chinese entrepreneur, I have my own pride. I have solved problems that Americans have not solved, and I have maintained the normal income of farmers. This is what I can contribute, so I am also proud of myself.

Musk has done these earth-shattering things. I haven't done anything that earth-shattering, but I have also done things that suit me. I am a farmer myself, so I have a special feeling for farmers. You have to admit that farmers are better than you. I have been thinking about agricultural issues.

Host: To do it to the best of your knowledge and structure is one of the responsibilities of the richest man, right?

Zhong Shanshan: I think the scope of the richest man’s wealth responsibilities must first include specific and executable altruism. This is a must. So when we evaluate the word “rich”, it is a kind of society, a kind of good element. You have to guide it, praise it, and encourage it to become a force for good.

Host: It has become a trend.

Zhong Shanshan: I dare not say it is a trend, because it is impossible for so many people to get rich quickly. People like me are lucky, very lucky, because we discovered that opportunity and got on the ship of that era.

Host: Let's investigate. When an opportunity to become the richest man is presented to you, would you be eager to grab it?

Audience: I won’t. I think bearing controversy, traffic and pressure is actually a very challenging and difficult thing for ordinary people.

Zhong Shanshan: I think what this young man said is absolutely right, because in terms of this pressure, it is invisible, and your every move will be exposed under the spotlight.

Host: This feeling is very uncomfortable, right?

Zhong Shanshan: Losing freedom, because freedom is very important, especially for someone like me, I want to have a private space.

Host: The reason you resist it and don't like it, besides not liking to be overly concerned, is there a so-called curse? Some people say that the richest man seems to be a high-risk word.

Zhong Shanshan: I am very confident about my outcome. First, I started from scratch, and every penny is clean; second, I pay taxes according to regulations; third, you can investigate the upstream and downstream suppliers, and you will find out how Zhong Shanshan retains profits for them; fourth, the welfare and treatment of employees. Of course, there is still room for improvement in my efforts, but at my current level, I think I am satisfied with myself.

Host: When we enter the Internet era, our next label may be related to this part of the content. Let's take a look at this label, and traffic appears. You are actually a member of the traffic now. Some people even say that you are not just an ordinary traffic player, you are the top traffic player.

Zhong Shanshan: I don’t think I have that ability, because I’m not someone who speaks out often, so when I look at traffic, I’m observing. If the word “traffic” carries information without a responsible person, that is, traffic does not bear legal responsibility under the environment of public opinion, then traffic must be a kind of evil. Traffic itself is a concept from water. Like water, Li Bing and his son took advantage of the situation in Dujiangyan, so what was in the hearts of Li Bing and his son? I want this water to do good. But if this traffic allows some people with private purposes, or in order to obtain money, to use technological means to exploit the weaknesses of human nature, deliberately create traffic potential, and carry out large-scale disordered networks, like a water dragon, it will be destructive to a certain extent.

Host: They are the so-called water army.

Zhong Shanshan: Internet water army is one of them, but what is more important is to master the algorithm of Internet water army, which is a greater evil.

Host: It sounds like you have also been hurt by the traffic.

Zhong Shanshan: I appreciate traffic and I gladly accept it because you have time. But during this time, when the truth emerges and the false truth is washed away, society will suffer tremendous pressure.

Host: Do you feel confused a lot? People are more willing to accept the so-called truth that they first encounter, but it is actually a false truth. After a period of time, the real truth comes out, but people are no longer in the mood to accept it. What they remember is what happened before.

Zhong Shanshan: So the law requires quick action. If Li Bing and his son waited until the Chengdu Plain was flooded before building the Dujiangyan Irrigation System, all their efforts would have been wasted.

Host: At that time, being receptive to good advice would just be a fantasy.

Zhong Shanshan: Yes, he should have a legal bottom line when it comes to traffic.

Host: Would you like to talk about a time you experienced criticism on the Internet?

Zhong Shanshan: Let the online attacks continue, that’s it. I guess the online stigma against me this time cannot be washed away, so let it go.

Host: Is this a kind of helpless giving up?

Zhong Shanshan: No, I do my own thing.

Host: Ignore it?

Zhong Shanshan: I have my own ideal in my heart, because the day will definitely come in the end, but it just comes a little late. As long as I can hold on until dawn, many people cannot hold on until dawn and they jump off the building, but I can do it.

Host: I want to see the day when the truth comes out.

Zhong Shanshan: Yes, it will definitely appear, but the speed will not be that fast. So many people say that truth will not be absent, it is just late. However, being late is a kind of harm and a loss. Truth cannot be late.

Distributor Weng Xiang: I have been a distributor of Nongfu Spring for more than 20 years. If you want to make a good and fair evaluation of a person, you must first understand him and what he is doing. As an entrepreneur, his product is his character. If you don’t have good products, how can you talk about character from the perspective of our company.

Host: They were all filled with righteous indignation. Were you also in the same mood at that time?

Zhong Shanshan: Yes, but I do get angry sometimes, but I am an emotional person and it will pass quickly.

Host: The adjustment is over.

Zhong Shanshan: Yes, I still sleep, eat and go to work as usual.

Host: You have a really big heart.

Zhong Shanshan: Sometimes I get angry, and sometimes I think you are just talking nonsense. It's really nonsense. If there is a little truth in it, I will accept it with a smile. You are almost talking nonsense. I have worked in journalism myself, and journalism is also my first major.

Host: Truth is the first principle of news.

Zhong Shanshan: Yes, I think how can the Internet be like this? Does it have no logic? It completely removes time and environment from simple logic and then presents it. In addition, many people who don’t know the truth don’t know that they know every day that this person is so bad and he is the richest man. Imagine that this richest man has original sin in obtaining money.

Host: I believe that, as I just said, when the people behind the screen send out these words, they actually don't know you or understand you. Would you like to say something to these "keyboard warriors" today?

Zhong Shanshan: I think the existence of "keyboard warriors" is also a kind of discourse power. You must first bear ethical responsibilities for this discourse power. Secondly, you must also bear moral responsibilities, because this is for your own good. When you learn to explore the truth of a thing, you are a kind of progress in life experience. So you have to do good things that are beneficial to others and to society. If the whole society is moving forward, you will also move forward; if the whole society is moving downward, you will definitely be dragged down.

I don’t agree that young people should just spend all their time on the Internet. I think young people really need to get their hands dirty. If you don’t study when you are young and stay in a small room, it is a waste of your life. But does society have the ability to create so many opportunities?

Host: Let young people learn.

Zhong Shanshan: Let young people practice, get their hands dirty, and gain experience. I think that for a young person, breadth is more important than depth. He needs all kinds of experience, which is the traditional saying of reading thousands of books and traveling thousands of miles. We cannot accept other people's ideas in a small room, which are all buns that have been chewed by others.

Host: Especially when this small room is an information cocoon, the impact is actually greater.

Zhong Shanshan: To be honest, if you spend an hour on the Internet every day, that is moderate. If you spend more than an hour, I think it is inappropriate because time is limited.

Host: I believe that when we face disputes caused by traffic, we despise those who rely on rumors to cause traffic, but some disputes are based on facts. I secretly hid a bottle of water. You see, this water is very familiar. It is Nongfu Spring drinking purified water. I remember when we talked that year, including later, you repeatedly said that we would not make purified water. Now Mr. Zhong has broken his promise and made purified water.

Zhong Shanshan: Why did I stop producing purified water? In 1996, when I went to acquire the Wujiapi winery in Yandongguan, Jiande City, Zhejiang Province, Xie Kangchun, the executive deputy county magistrate, invited me to have dinner near the dam next to the Xin'an River. I looked at the water and thought, how could this water flow away? He immediately slapped his head and found a place for me after dinner.

So we just hit our heads and made water, and then we made purified water. At that time, purified water made from natural water and purified water made from tap water were really different. For example, children under the age of twelve may be more sensitive and can immediately distinguish that this is sweet and this is astringent. Then we produced this water, and the slogan came from that, which is "Nongfu Spring is a little sweet". It is really sweet. When this water was produced, it was actually not sweet. But why did we produce this water?

Host: Is it different after entering the industrial process?

Zhong Shanshan: No, because when you first produced this water, you were ignorant. I didn’t know anything about water. But when I arrived in Europe, I hardly saw any purified water. In the United States, there was a little purified water, but in Japan, it was all natural water, not a single bottle of purified water.

Host: Did you feel you had done something wrong at that time?

Zhong Shanshan: At that time, I thought I knew about this water, and I also read a lot of information. From 1996 when I started making water to 2000 when the second factory was built, my knowledge system changed in the four years between then. I knew that the minerals in water need to be taken in for a long time, and that they are good for the human body. Then there is a paragraph from the American Heart Association, which I memorized at the time, that the TDS (total dissolved solids) content in water is inversely proportional to the incidence of cardiovascular diseases, which means that if you are older, try to drink less water without minerals, or don’t drink it. But if you are young, I don’t care what water you drink. I want to reflect on my mistakes. If I was wrong, then my mistake at the time was a rough decision. I thought that if this water was for my parents or my children to drink, I would definitely not produce this water.

Then at that time I announced that I would stop producing purified water and choose natural water. If it weren’t for this year’s online controversy, I might never have produced this water.

Host: So what is the relationship between the two?

Zhong Shanshan: You see, in this current online controversy, people are saying that your slogan “Nongfu Spring is a little sweet” has deceived me for twenty years and has deceived me my entire life. Some people are saying that you are not sweet at all. How can you be sweet at all?

So this is a reverse stimulus from some people who don't know the truth. I think my mistake is that I deprived consumers of their right to choose. Since you want to choose, I will give you the opportunity again. However, many people in our company don't understand why you do this.

I launched this water this year, and I still tell everyone that if you want to have a little sweetness and taste, drink this, and if you want to be healthy, drink this. Many people who make tea do not choose purified water, they choose natural water. Why do they choose natural water? The minerals in the water and the extracts in the tea are compatible. So there is another saying, whether the water is good or not, whether it is suitable or not, only tea knows. I was wrong, and I gave the right of choice back to everyone.

Host: You are not uncommon to encounter such controversies, including our century dispute in 2000 and our "standard gate" incident in 2013. Are you the only controversial person? Why are there always so many controversies surrounding you?

Zhong Shanshan: If a person is one step ahead, he may be the best; if he is two steps ahead, he will be controversial; if he is three steps ahead, he will be criticized.

Host: If you are an entrepreneur without traffic, the public will not pay much attention to the strategic choices you make.

Zhong Shanshan: Yes.

Host: Yes, this is also one of the benefits of traffic, at least it attracts some attention.

Zhong Shanshan: I said at the beginning that traffic is a neutral word. No matter what content you put on it, if it is good, it will show good, and if it is evil, it will radiate evil. But when people control this traffic, it is given commerciality. Once traffic is given commerciality, it must have commercial purposes. The transformation of commercial purposes from evil to good is managed by law. If there is no law to manage business, it is like putting rotten meat in sausages. The United States has done this before, so traffic itself is not commercial. But if it is commercial, it must be restricted by law.

Audience Zheng Xiaofeng: Actually, I agree with Mr. Zhong’s views on traffic. When your traffic is used for evil, it will definitely be a disaster. But when it is used for good, it can also help the development of some small and medium-sized enterprises. I think this is also a lot of traffic.

Host: Some people say that traffic is the golden key.

Audience Zheng Xiaofeng: Yes, you didn’t have any chance in the past, especially for our fast-moving consumer goods, which were all controlled by a few leading companies. So if your small business wanted to develop, it would be very difficult. This kind of traffic can spread your brand.

Host: Mr. Liu also raised his hand. Do you think Mr. Zhong has his own traffic?

Audience member Liu Jun: It must be the top traffic. Just now, Mr. Zhong mentioned the green and red. From our marketing perspective, the product itself is a top traffic. At this time, silence is better than words. I use a product to restore pure water and mineral water, and let consumers choose. In fact, it is silently letting consumers choose. The game and collision itself is a very good traffic. This traffic brings a very large social traffic.

Host: Let's take a look at what the next label will be for Mr. Zhong. The word "slow" appears at this time. In fact, for businesses, many people often say that only speed can't be broken, and you must be fast. But what does this word "slow" have to do with Mr. Zhong?

Zhong Shanshan: This slowness is actually relative. Without time, you really can’t polish a good product. We used to have a saying that it takes three years to build an army. If you don’t organize an army for three years, you can’t even achieve the basic form. So it’s not that it doesn’t want to be fast, it’s that it can’t be fast.

Host: Let's take a look at how you are so slow. It took six years to make tea, eight years to make oranges, and ten years to make water. People don't understand this. The water source is right there. We put it in bottles, or we add a processing and production process, so it can be put on the market quickly, right? What did we do in these ten years?

Zhong Shanshan: Jingyu County, Jilin Province is our water source. It took us ten years to develop that place. The county party secretary at that time came to me eight times. What was the first problem he encountered? We built the factory in winter, and we didn’t know that it would freeze in winter.

Host: I wonder how cold it is in Northeast China in winter.

Zhong Shanshan: Yes, the icy ground was over 2 meters thick, and I thought it had reached the foundation. But the next year, it thawed and the equipment became like this. So the knowledge system is totally inadequate. So every pit I just mentioned takes time to repair.

Wang Ding, deputy secretary of Jingyu County Party Committee: Mr. Zhong has been talking about how our county party secretary went to Nongfu Spring. In fact, he did not introduce how he went to Jingyu to investigate the water source, and how he went back and forth. The forest coverage rate of the reserve is relatively high, nearly 94%, and every time you pass a water source, you have to walk through the wetland, so it takes more than two hours to go back and forth to see a water source.

Wang Ding: Water is a renewable flowing resource. Reasonable development and use will bring wealth. Most mineral water actually flows away in vain. After Nongfu Spring built its factory, it was able to provide us with fiscal and tax revenue and employment for residents under the premise of reasonable development and use. In fact, it has brought us great economic and social benefits. Nongfu Spring is the largest taxpayer, and it has greatly helped the employment of the masses. More than 90% of the local employees of Nongfu Spring are local people.

Host: Among all your attempts to find water sources, which one was the most difficult or took the longest?

Zhong Shanshan: That is Mount Emei. The water source of Mount Emei is right in the cracks of the earthquake zone. Before 2008, we had been looking for water there, but we never made up our minds. Because of the 2008 earthquake, no company could transfer water there because the roads were problematic. So after the earthquake, we did two things. The first was to build a factory there.

Host: That is a consideration of responsibility.

Zhong Shanshan: So it was extremely difficult to build a factory there, because my partner at the time was a fat man, and he said, "I can't climb up there, you have to climb up." I had to see the outlet of every water source. For example, the outlet of Jingyu is at Cuocaoquan, and I have seen Cuocaoquan myself.

Host: Very familiar.

Zhong Shanshan: Then I keep an eye on most places myself.

Wang Peng, County Magistrate of Shanglin County, Guangxi: All the water sources of Nongfu Spring have several characteristics. One is the good ecological environment, which is natural. Good mountains produce good water, but what is another characteristic? Our economic development level is actually relatively backward. Most of the water sources of Nongfu Spring are located in old revolutionary areas, remote areas, including some ethnic areas. So in this regard, the company and our local party committee and government have a two-way race, that is, there must be a balance between corporate profits and economic development. Nongfu Spring's demanding requirements for natural water sources are actually the best endorsement of the local ecological environment.

Wang Peng: Our water source is in a deep mountain canyon. At that time, I had a dispute with the responsible comrades of the company about whether to let Mr. Zhong go in. The main reason was that the road in the middle was too dangerous. There was a section where we could hardly stand with our feet together.

Host: So narrow?

Wang Peng: It was on a primitive channel. The widest part of the channel was enough for two feet to stand side by side, but in the narrow part you could only move forward and backward in a staggered manner. I was thinking that although Mr. Zhong had a good physical foundation, he was a big boss after all, and he was also a bit older. I was very worried about this matter at the time.

Host: The rugged mountain road is really a test for him.

Wang Peng: So my colleagues in their company told me that what happened to you is nothing. When Mr. Zhong was in Mount Emei, he almost slipped down.

Zhong Shanshan: Mount Emei is like this. It is a slope of about 70 degrees. You can only stick to the edge of the slope, and you push hard. Then you go down the same way. There is only one road, but what do farmers do there? They still grow coptis root. There are two benefits to building a factory in this place. The first is to solve the poverty problem of local farmers and bring jobs. As long as there is one person in the family employed in the factory, you have solved the problem.

Host: It's really dangerous. Would you dare to go there again?

Zhong Shanshan: I don’t think I can climb up now.

Host: If you encounter similar dangerous peaks again, it might be a bit difficult.

Zhong Shanshan: The water source I visited last year is the Jiaozi Snow Mountain in Yunnan. I went there on a donkey or a horse, but I still felt I had to go and see where the water came from. Once I see it, I will feel at ease. Otherwise, I will not be at ease about this matter.

Host: Have you ever felt anxious in the past fifteen years?

Zhong Shanshan: I was anxious before. It’s not that I haven’t been anxious before. Because at that time, the debt ratio was around 90%. But you can’t be impatient. There are some things you can’t be impatient about.

Host: But your industry requires you to be fast. Fast-moving consumer goods, product iterations, etc. all require speed.

Zhong Shanshan: Speed ​​has its disadvantages. If there is no real advantage, its coverage is very easy. Its new products can be released one generation after another every year, just that fast. But its life span is not long. Your slowness is for longevity, and this slowness is the result of long-term technological accumulation. It is a very strong enterprise production capacity.

Host: Actually, you were doing well in the water business, but you chose to enter other fields. You have been making orange juice for eight years. Have you made a profit so far?

Zhong Shanshan: Orange juice is not profitable yet.

Host: Many people may find it hard to understand why you chose to enter the agricultural field, where you depend on the weather for your livelihood, when you can make money by selling water. So what were the considerations behind your initial decision?

Zhong Shanshan: For example, in 2007, there was a bumper harvest of oranges in Anyuan, Ganzhou, and the price was 5 cents per pound. A county magistrate invited me at the time and asked me if I could build a juice factory. I went there and he asked me, "Do you know the taste of this orange?" I said, "I don't know." He said that if we don't claim to be number one in terms of taste, no one in the world dares to claim to be number one.

Host: So confident.

Zhong Shanshan: So confident. Then he cut the orange in half and asked me to taste it. I tasted it when I cut the orange in half and it melted immediately. It melted in my mouth and the sugar-acid ratio was very good. I had already started a farmer's orchard at that time.

Host: So you think this should be done out of commercial sensitivity?

Zhong Shanshan: Yes, first of all, the price fluctuation is like this, 0.5 yuan in a good year, 1.5 yuan in a bad year, it will always be like this, I can "flatten" this fluctuation, or I can standardize it in agriculture, because I can standardize the commercial fruit that is suitable for commercial fruit, because the agricultural process has three "izations", the first is standardization, the second is systematization, and the third is contractualization, and there must be a contract with the farmers. But after entering, I stepped on a big pit, which I never thought of, the juice squeezed from this orange cannot be drunk, have you ever thought of it?

Host: Why can’t you drink it?

Zhong Shanshan: Because industrial oranges are sterilized before storage. If they are not sterilized, there will be bacteria. This sterilization process will give you a taste, which is the taste of cabbage. This pitfall is beyond my knowledge, so it is a hot potato at this time. The responsibility of entrepreneurs is first to take action to solve problems. You must first run a business well. If you can't run your business well, what about social responsibility?

Host: It’s just empty talk.

Zhong Shanshan: That is worthless. You can talk about responsibility very well, but responsibility is specific. So I took this problem-solving topic and went to Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands, Brazil, and Florida in the United States. I asked them why and what the problem was. They said, "Don't you know that Newhall navel oranges cannot be juiced? Is there water in your head?" They said this is a world problem. There are oranges for juicing, and there are varieties for juicing. They will not change taste under high temperature. I have a requirement for myself, which is to do wrong things right. Even if this thing is wrong, if you decide to do it, you have to do it right. Since I have started this thing, I must have a period, and I will not stop at a comma. I stopped to study, and seven years later we solved this problem. We solved the problem of juicing in 2014, and another problem came again, Huanglongbing.

Host: Pests and diseases.

Zhong Shanshan: You have to slow down. Many people who eat oranges may not understand how big an impact the disease has on the world. At that time, there was Huanglongbing in Florida, which was the world's largest orange planting base. Up to now, I checked its data last year, and it was probably in 2004 that it reached a peak of 250 million standard boxes of fresh oranges in Florida. By last year, there were only 16 million boxes, which is 93%, which is zero, and it was completely wiped out. But you have to know that the US government and the University of Florida have invested enough energy in this, but they still haven't solved this problem. How many years did it take us to really solve the industry problem by planting this orange? It took fourteen years.

Host: So this timeline is still extending.

Zhong Shanshan: It took fourteen years. Why did it take fourteen years? At that time, I went to Ganzhou, Jiangxi, and the land was devastated. You have to know that for an industry to develop to more than one million mu, the local government spent an unknown amount of money. I know that in the old revolutionary base of Ganzhou, in some of its poorest areas, cadres took the lead. Each cadre took out 30,000 yuan or 50,000 yuan to plant three mu of land, and then the farmers followed suit. In this way, the oranges were planted. But within three years, Huanglongbing caused the land to be flattened.

Host: Back to the beginning.

Zhong Shanshan: Then what do we do? We use price as a guide. How do we use price as a guide? The original price was 1.5 yuan, and I raised it to 2.8 yuan. Then I signed 4,300 contracts, 4,300 long-term contracts, with a minimum purchase price. Then it will fluctuate every year. I won’t set a limit for you. When your market price goes up, I will go up. I have the pricing power.

Host: And also guarantee their income.

Zhong Shanshan: I also guarantee their income. As long as you follow the farmer's standardized planting method, I guarantee to buy it. What is the level of technology of the farmers in the old revolutionary base of Ganzhou now? They know more than the experts of the Citrus Research Institute back then. As long as he looks at the leaves on the tree, he will know that it has Huanglongbing. I will cut down the tree immediately and suppress the probability of its spread to a very low level. So now the production in Florida has dropped to more than 90%. We have now developed from 1.5 million mu to 2 million mu. More importantly, he has transformed from an agricultural farmer to an agricultural worker.

Host: You have been dealing with farmers from so many different regions for so many years and have participated in the entire agricultural production and construction process. What experiences do you want to share with us?

Zhong Shanshan: Because I am a farmer myself, I know the farmers’ mentality very well. Farmers are willing to share hardships with you. But after sharing hardships, can we share prosperity? That is, after your industry is developed, you start to lower prices when there is a good year, and you start to raise prices when there is a bad year. The farmers are not happy. Therefore, your industrial policy must have price guarantees and contracts. In fact, farmers are a group of people who abide by contracts.

Host: Today we have quietly invited a few farmers, whom you may not know. I have to ask them to speak on the spot.

Farmer friends: Hello, host, hello, Mr. Zhong. I am a grower of navel oranges in southern Jiangxi. I grow 70 to 80 mu of navel oranges. I started growing navel oranges in 2003 and started selling them to Nongfu Spring in 2016. Sales are guaranteed and I made some money. The risks of farming are too great and we rely on the weather. If we didn’t have Nongfu Spring to squeeze juice, our orchards would be in trouble. I had the honor of attending the 17.5° Orange press conference in 2016, and I met Mr. Zhong. Nongfu Spring is still a company with a conscience and affection for farmers.

Host: So you will continue to cooperate with Nongfu Spring in the future, right?

Farmer friends: Continue to cooperate with Nongfu Spring.

Yue Haijun: My name is Yue Haijun and I’m from Yili, Xinjiang. I’m a grower of “Huang Yuanshuai” apples.

Yue Haijun: We are basically achieving moderate prosperity now.

Host: Could you please tell us about last year's harvest and how much money did you make?

Yue Haijun: Two hundred thousand yuan last year.

Host: Two hundred thousand yuan. We look so arrogant. When we interview you next year, you might say 400,000 yuan.

Yue Haijun: I dare not say that, but I might hope for 350,000 yuan next year.

Host: 350,000 yuan, thank you. With the cooperation with Nongfu Spring, we heard the stories of farmers getting richer and their lives getting better, which really made us feel gratified. But when I think about seeing you, I feel not so happy because we are not profitable yet.

Zhong Shanshan: What do you want to look at when it comes to agricultural profitability? You have to look at the entire company. It has marginal effects.

Host: How do you put it?

Zhong Shanshan: What is marginal effect? ​​Take the Spring Festival for example. If there are no oranges, the whole season will not be rich. If you only sell water, there will be nothing to do at that time. So a company must rely on the whole.

Host: The product line is richer.

Zhong Shanshan: Yes, not everything has to make money. Some of them are strategic losses. There must be strategic loss-making projects.

Host: Have you set a timetable for this strategic loss? Let’s take tea as an example.

Zhong Shanshan: We have been making tea for more than ten years since 2012 and 2013. We did not make any money in the first six years, but in 2021, the growth curve has started.

Host: Very fast.

Zhong Shanshan: It doesn’t matter if the first part is long, but you have to pull it up later. So it’s like this when it’s averaged. So for any product, as long as it’s in the right direction, why do we insist on tea? Tea is actually very, very Chinese, a product with Chinese soul. I will use industrial means to organize farmers to intensify, so that tea can be popularized in thousands of households, and once again become a very elegant civilization in China, and spread to the world again.

Host: But this track is already quite crowded.

Zhong Shanshan: Yes, this year has seen explosive growth. Last year, there were only 10 follow-up products, but this year, there are estimated to be 2,000. But this is a process, and in the end, the best few will remain.

Host: So you must be very confident that it will be our Nongfu Spring that will cross the finish line in the final sprint.

Zhong Shanshan: I think there is no hesitation, as long as you keep improving. Now you see, we have gone from simple agricultural procurement of tea to managing tea gardens. Orange farmers know that we now require you not only to use pesticides, but also fertilizers, organic fertilizers, and standardization, and then immediately require drip irrigation to ensure that you are least affected by natural conditions and that agriculture is not affected by natural disasters. The security of agriculture must rely on the economic foundation, so don't rush to make money. As long as you go up, it will be at that time, and this wealth is the reward for your contribution. If you make a contribution, wealth will definitely be returned to you.

Host: So you regard the previous process as a very effective accumulation process.

Zhong Shanshan: Yes, you have to do the homework. If you don’t do the homework, you are deceiving yourself. In the first three months of 2023, I will probably make 5 billion to 6 billion in profit, but in the first 15 years, I may not even make 5 billion in profit.

Host: Do you think you have a chance to make money if you keep working so hard in the past fifteen years?

Zhong Shanshan: This is to look at the growth curve. Its growth curve must have a slow and healthy accumulation process. Don't be anxious about it. I noticed Huang Renxun's CPU, GPU, and now GPU2. You can see that its growth curve is very flat, and it has been pulled up all of a sudden. High-tech companies are all like this, not to mention traditional companies. Traditional companies must be down-to-earth.

Host: You must do it.

Zhong Shanshan: There is no shortcut.

Host: So I can hear that you have always held the idea that slowness is actually a form of speed.

Zhong Shanshan: Yes, it is a kind of competitiveness in the end. Sometimes speed is a kind of ability accumulation, and it is not necessarily absolutely a number. But you really need to know when to be fast and when to be slow. Mastering speed must be an ability of entrepreneurs.

Host: I thought of a point you raised during our conversation more than 20 years ago. I think it can somewhat explain the question mark I just raised. Let's review it together.

If you want to build a business that will explode, I can lower the price overnight and bring it to the bottom, but if I don’t want to do that, then you have to extend it slowly, and it may take you ten or eight years, so you have to be patient.

Host: The answer I found is patience. Slowness may rely on patience. Let’s first talk about you back then.

Zhong Shanshan: I was still like a young man back then.

Host: You are full of energy. Compared with that time, you must have gained more patience, which may be a core requirement of slowing down as we just said.

Zhong Shanshan: It is much better now than before. Because now, the depth of consideration of many things is different. Many decisions made now are big decisions. You have to look ahead ten years to judge the development of the industry ten years later.

Host: People often say that predicting the future is the most difficult thing. In this era of rapid change, we may not know what will happen tomorrow. How can you accurately know that the future you see is the future that we may see in ten years?

Zhong Shanshan: Everyone has his own philosophy, his own business philosophy, and his logical methodology is different. For example, I am a great admirer of natural philosophy. That is, when humans develop to a certain level, they care about themselves, so health must be the future. Your industry and products revolve around the word "health", but the word "health" sounds very broad, but if you implement it to a certain point, your needs will emerge.

Host: That is the competitiveness of your product.

Zhong Shanshan: Yes, then you look at where the problems and defects of the current products are. The problems you solve are everywhere.

Host: Continuously innovate yourself, continuously iterate and upgrade. Take Nongfu Spring's product iteration as an example. You see there are so many products in different categories. Are you a person who likes curling naturally?

Zhong Shanshan: I think the word "volume" itself is not a wrong word.

Host: Don't look at it with a negative perspective.

Zhong Shanshan: Yes, there are two ways to roll it. One is to roll it downward, where the product quality declines. As the quality declines, the price goes down, and that’s rolling downward. But there is also a way to roll it upward, where the quality of my product improves and I increase the price. This is a good way to roll it. The truly positive way is to roll it upward in both directions: quality goes up, price goes up, and then the wealth of society increases.

Host: But because the competition is so fierce now, sometimes we want to present a positive curl, but the movements are often deformed.

Zhong Shanshan: Your technical content, technological content and differentiation are not enough. If you had enough, you would definitely be able to move up.

Host: What does Nongfu Spring want next?

Zhong Shanshan: I went to Japan in May this year to conduct a comprehensive study of tea. In this industry, I think we are at the back end because we rely on China's tea production, that is, the planting area, and we have picked the best. But our farmers' yields are still very low. Because tea grows fast, it is mainly picked by hand, with a small amount of machines. A Chinese farmer is basically responsible for two acres of land, but how many acres does a Japanese farmer manage? 50 acres.

Host: It’s totally out of proportion.

Zhong Shanshan: Yes. This is China's reform and opening up to the present. We have jumped from agricultural civilization to industrial civilization all at once. Then we have satellites, high-speed rail, real estate, and white appliances. But we need to catch up. Why does China's agriculture have such rich biodiversity? This is very rare among countries in the world. But it really takes a long time for people, including our current colleges and universities, to turn papers into products, to go down to the fields, to the mountains, and to the land of China, so that China can really lay a solid foundation.

Host: We have been talking about business operations for such a long time. One day we will have to face the issue of successors. Do you have someone in mind now?

Zhong Shanshan: The ideal person is a vague concept. There are two types of successors for an enterprise. One is at the enterprise level, which is the cultural inheritance, system inheritance, and value inheritance. About 20 years ago, we determined our values, which are to create profits, educate people, and benefit the world. We attach great importance to system design. System innovation or system inheritance must be placed before ownership inheritance.

Host: First one.

Zhong Shanshan: Institutional inheritance is more important than ownership inheritance, and many people do not distinguish between the two. Institutional inheritance and cultural inheritance are important issues for a company to thrive.

Host: This is also what you most hope to pass on to your successor.

Zhong Shanshan: Yes, because this inheritance can have no blood relationship with you, which is the most important thing. The second is the inheritance of your ownership.

Host: I heard that there is a saying that Nongfu Spring may be passed on to the second generation of Americans, and it may not be a Chinese company in the future. Is this true?

Zhong Shanshan: I think Nongfu Spring will always be an excellent Chinese company. I repeat. Nongfu Spring will always belong to China, so the equity structure of Nongfu Spring is very simple. Nongfu Spring does not have any island companies, so its value chain is very short and its equity structure is very simple. I would not have failed to consider this matter at the beginning. I must have considered the most important ownership issue very clearly.

Host: Is it close to 100% clear now?

Zhong Shanshan: Not clear.

Host: The portrait is still blurry.

Zhong Shanshan: Not really, it cannot be clear because this is a convention.

Host: I don’t know clearly how I will know when it’s my turn to take over. I need to make some preparations.

Zhong Shanshan: Yes, we couldn’t make any preparations because this is a big company. In order to keep the company in a competitive stage forever, all big companies need to maintain confidentiality. Everyone thought I had a chance.

Host: Under what circumstances will this mystery be revealed and shown to the public?

Zhong Shanshan: I think their abilities make me feel at ease and I can hand over the baton.

Host: Let’s give you a reverse example. What kind of successor may not lead the company to prosperity as you wish, but may instead lead the company to decline.

Zhong Shanshan: The first and worst quality of a successor is hesitation.

Host: Hesitation.

Zhong Shanshan: Discussing but not deciding, not being decisive. This is the bottom line quality, why? Even if it is a wrong decision, you must make a decision and you must be quick. In fact, sometimes you have to make a decision slowly, sometimes you have to make a decision quickly, but you must have a decision. I think the successor first needs to be kind and smart enough. Then he should be altruistic, innovative, not follow the old ways, and dare to break the rules. So the vitality of the enterprise lies in his courage. So these requirements of mine are very high, but they can be completed by a group.

Host: Today, we talked a lot with Mr. Zhong on the show, all of which started with the labels people put on him. What I want to ask Mr. Zhong today is, when you face so many labels, which one do you want to tear off the most?

Zhong Shanshan: I think since he has put a label on you, there must be a reason behind it. You should digest it slowly and don’t tear it off.

Host: This answer is a bit unexpected to me. If we were to label ourselves, what would Zhong Shanshan’s label be?

Zhong Shanshan: I hope I am an idealist.

I think I appreciate this. Cervantes, this writer, has another nickname which is the ideal madman. I think this ideal is very rare for us, especially for ideal madmen. So I bought this thing and put it here. Many people told me that you can't put a sword in the office, but I said that I should put my sword there. It is the sword of ideals.

Host: I even kind of hope that you are an idealistic lunatic.

Zhong Shanshan: Idealistic lunatics can’t do it. It really requires a certain state of mind. Idealistic lunatics don’t consider anything, they don’t consider themselves at all. This idealistic lunatic has a state of mind, and that is a very high state of mind, which I cannot reach at present.

Host: I believe you will achieve it.

Zhong Shanshan: Laugh (Applause).

Host: Today, I really want to thank Mr. Zhong for choosing "Dialogue" after not appearing in public or in the media for a long time. We have completed another conversation after more than 20 years. In fact, such a conversation is quite rewarding for me, because a person shared his decades of life experience and business thinking with everyone from the bottom of his heart. So I also express my gratitude. I asked the staff to prepare a glass of light wine, because the same precipitation is in life experience and in fine wine. Let us feel the wisdom of life in the wine together and wish a better future together.

Photo provided by CCTV News interviewee