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On August 10, CCTV Finance Channel's "Dialogue" program interviewed Nongfu Spring Chairman and General Manager Zhong Shanshan. The program lasted about an hour.

During the show, Zhong Shanshan responded to rumors such as "Nongfu Spring may be passed on to the second generation of American citizens" and "the richest man only donated 24,000 bottles", as well as topics such as "being attacked by cybercriminals" and "launching purified water".

“Becoming the richest man made me lose my freedom”

"Starting from scratch, every dollar is clean"

host:I checked before going on the show, and it said that our Mr. Zhong was on the list for the fourth time on March 25 this year (2024), and then a net worth of 450 billion was written behind your name. My God, you became the richest man in China again.

Zhong Shanshan:I live my life, I haven't changed, and I don't feel that there has been any change in my life.

host:We think this is a halo. For a person, especially a businessman, if you have created so much wealth and made yourself the richest man, it is also very impressive.

Zhong Shanshan:If we look at wealth itself, we should see this wealth as a reward from consumers or the market to an entrepreneur. But to be honest, this richest man has a negative connotation in our country.

Because we have leaped from agricultural civilization to industrial civilization in one step, we have shortened the three hundred or four hundred years in between to thirty or forty years. However, the enlightenment in this process, the understanding of wealth or wealth, the meaning, responsibility, value and behavior of wealth have not been fully interpreted.

host:Do you feel aggrieved by the negative views of the richest man?

Zhong Shanshan:I don't feel wronged, everything exists.

I now feel that this Internet storm, in particular, is a storm after all. It made me rethink, and I really rethink, where do I think the responsibilities of the richest people lie? The richest people have responsibilities, because society’s requirements for you are different, so many things, for example, we used to do a lot of altruistic things, but in my mind, if you do good for the sake of others, it is not a kind of true goodness. If you do good things for others to know and see, then it is not okay, then you are hypocritical.

But after I became the richest man, the first criticism I received was about the 24,000 bottles of water. The 24,000 bottles of water were a kind of our system design. In fact, during the Wenchuan earthquake, we transported water to Chengdu, but all the transportation hubs in Chengdu were paralyzed. If we wanted to deliver water to the disaster relief site as soon as possible, we had to have authorization. So we set up a system that whenever there is a public crisis, the power to deliver water is delegated to each region. Then, after each region took this path, it took another step and delegated it to offices and distributors. 1,000 boxes were delivered to each distributor, and 1,000 boxes were 24,000 bottles. Although this system design was originally a good thing, it was also pulled out during the online controversy and criticized as a richest man. I think people don't understand our system.

host:Everything exists is reasonable.

Zhong Shanshan:Some things exist are reasonable, and some are unreasonable, but for those that are unreasonable, you must work hard to make them reasonable.

host:You mentioned some negative comments about the richest man, and I thought of one thing. Some people say that from a global perspective, the richest man in the United States makes rockets, while the richest man in China sells water, so they are more "watery".

Zhong Shanshan:I think this sentence is very pertinent. I sell water, so I am more "water", because if I am not "water", then this "water" will not be water. I have read the biography of Elon Musk, the richest man in the United States. I think he is a very outstanding and talented entrepreneur. At the same time, the comparison between the two of us is very different. I wonder what I was doing at the age of 25? I went to elementary school for four years and worked as a farmer for 17 years. That's all my experience. When Elon Musk was 24 years old, he was already a doctoral student at Stanford University, but he didn't finish his doctorate before he went into business to pursue his ideal career. This is incomparable between the two people in terms of social evaluation. But as the richest man, the social responsibility can be compared, because wealth itself has social responsibility.

Elon Musk's path is to create the boundaries of science and technology, but my experience is that of a farmer. I think more about farmers and what I can do within my knowledge. Although Musk has done something earth-shattering, I am not that great. But I think as a Chinese entrepreneur, I have my own pride. I have solved problems that Americans have not solved, and I have maintained the normal income of farmers. This is what I can contribute, so I am also proud of myself.

Musk has done these earth-shattering things. I haven't done anything that earth-shattering, but I have also done things that suit me. I am a farmer myself, so I have a special feeling for farmers. You have to admit that farmers are better than you. I have been thinking about agricultural issues.

host:Doing it to the best of your knowledge and structure is one of the responsibilities of the richest man as you understand it, right?

Zhong Shanshan:I believe that the scope of the richest man's wealth responsibilities must first include specific and executable altruism. This is a must. So when we evaluate the word "rich", it is a kind of society, a kind of good element. You have to guide it, praise it, and encourage it to become a force for good.

I dare not say that it will become a trend, because it is impossible for so many people to get rich quickly. People like me are lucky, very lucky, because we discovered that opportunity and got on the ship of that era.

Because the pressure of being the richest man is invisible, and your every move is always under the spotlight. It makes me lose my freedom, because freedom is very important, especially for people like me, I want to have a private space. I am very confident about my ending. First, I started from scratch, and every dollar I earned is clean; second, I pay taxes according to the law; third, you can investigate the upstream and downstream suppliers, and you can find out how much profit Zhong Shanshan retains from the upstream and downstream suppliers; fourth, the welfare and treatment of employees. Of course, I still have room for improvement, but for my current level, I think I am satisfied with myself.

“Mastering the algorithm of the water army is even more evil”

"The stigma on the Internet cannot be completely washed away, so let it go"

host:When we enter the Internet era, our next label may be related to this part of the content. Let's take a look at this label, and traffic appears. You are actually a member of the traffic now. Some people even say that you are not just an ordinary traffic player, you are the top traffic player.

Zhong Shanshan:I don't think I have that ability, because I'm not someone who speaks out often, so when I look at traffic, I'm observing. If the word "traffic" carries information without a responsible person, that is, traffic does not bear legal responsibility in the context of public opinion, then traffic must be a kind of evil. Traffic itself is a concept from water. Like water, Li Bing and his son took advantage of the situation in Dujiangyan, so what was in the hearts of Li Bing and his son? I want this water to do good. But if this traffic allows some people with private purposes, or in order to obtain money, to use technological means to exploit the weaknesses of human nature, deliberately create traffic potential, and carry out large-scale disordered networks, that kind of water dragon, to a certain extent, it will be destructive.

host:It's the so-called water army.

Zhong Shanshan:The navy is one of them.But what is more important is to master the algorithm of the water army, which is more evil.。

host:It sounds like you were also hurt by the traffic.

Zhong Shanshan:I appreciate traffic and I gladly accept it because you have time, but during this time, when the truth emerges and the false truth is washed away, society is under tremendous pressure.

host:Do you feel confused a lot of the time? More people are willing to accept the so-called truth that they first encounter, but it is actually a false truth. After a period of time, the real truth comes out, but everyone is no longer in the mood to accept it. What everyone remembers is the previous one.

Zhong Shanshan:Therefore, the law requires prompt and timely action. If Li Bing and his son waited until the Chengdu Plain was flooded before building the Dujiangyan Irrigation System, all their efforts would have been wasted.

host:At that time, being willing to follow good advice would just be a fantasy.

Zhong Shanshan:Yes, he should have a legal bottom line when it comes to traffic.

host:Would you like to talk about a time you experienced this kind of online criticism?

Zhong Shanshan:I think that we should let the attacks on the Internet go on, that's it.I guess the stigma I've been stigmatized by on the Internet can never be completely washed away, so let it go.。

host:Are you giving up helplessly?

Zhong Shanshan:No, I do my thing.

host:Ignore it?

Zhong Shanshan:I have my own ideal in my heart, because the day must be bright in the end, but it just dawns a little late. As long as I can hold on until dawn, many people cannot hold on until dawn and they jump off the building, but I can do it.

host:I want to see the day when the truth comes out.

Zhong Shanshan:Yes, it will definitely appear, but the speed will not be that fast. So many people say that the truth will not be absent, it is just late. But being late is a kind of harm and a loss. The truth cannot be late.

host:They were all filled with righteous indignation. Mr. Zhong, were you in the same mood at that time?

Zhong Shanshan:Yes, but I do get angry sometimes, but I am an emotional person and it will pass quickly. I still sleep, eat and go to work as usual.

Sometimes I get angry, sometimes I think you are talking nonsense, really nonsense, if there is a little truth in it, I will accept it. You are talking nonsense almost all the time. I have worked in journalism myself, and journalism was also my first major.

host:Truth is the first principle of news.

Zhong Shanshan:Yes, I think how can the Internet be like this? Doesn't it have logic? It completely removes time and environment from simple logic and then presents it. In addition, many people who don't know the truth don't know that they know every day that this person is so bad and he is the richest man. Imagine that this richest man has original sin in obtaining this money.

host:I believe that, as I just said, when the people behind the screen send these words, they actually don't know you or understand you. Would you like to say something to these "keyboard warriors" today?

Zhong Shanshan:I think the existence of "keyboard warriors" is also a kind of discourse power. You must first bear ethical responsibilities for this discourse power. Secondly, you must also bear moral responsibilities, because this is for your own good. When you learn to explore the truth of a thing, you are a kind of progress in your life experience. So you should do good things that are beneficial to others and to society. If the whole society is moving forward, you will also move forward. If the whole society is moving downward, you will definitely be dragged down.

I don't agree if all the young people spend all their time on this (the Internet). I think it is very, very important for young people to get their hands dirty, doing all kinds of things. If you don't study when you are young and just stay in a small room, it is a waste of your life. But does our society have the ability to create so many opportunities?

Let the young people practice, get their hands dirty, and gain experience. I think for a young person, breadth is more important than depth. He needs all kinds of experience, which is the traditional saying of reading thousands of books and traveling thousands of miles. We cannot accept other people's ideas in a small room, which are all bread that others have chewed over.

host:Especially when this small room is an information cocoon, the impact is actually greater.

Zhong Shanshan:To be honest, I think if you spend an hour a day (on the Internet), that is moderate. If you spend more than an hour, I think it is inappropriate because time is limited.

Purified water is

“I hope to give everyone the right to choose”

host:I believe that when we face disputes caused by traffic, we despise those who rely on rumors to cause traffic, but some disputes are based on facts. I secretly hid a bottle of water. You see, this water is very familiar. Nongfu Spring drinking purified water. I remember when we talked that year, including later, you repeatedly said that we would not make purified water. Now Mr. Zhong has broken his promise and made purified water.

Zhong Shanshan:I have to recall why I stopped producing purified water. In 1996, I went to buy the Wujiapi winery in Yandongguan. Xie Kangchun, the executive deputy county chief, invited me to have dinner next to the Xin'an River and the dam. I looked at the water and thought, how can this water flow away? He immediately thought and found a place for me after dinner.

So we just hit our heads and made water, and then we made purified water. At that time, purified water made from natural water and purified water made from tap water were really different. For example, children under the age of twelve may be more sensitive and can immediately distinguish that this is sweet and this is astringent. Then we produced this water, and the slogan came from that, which is "Nongfu Spring is a little sweet". It is really sweet. When this water was produced, it was actually not sweet. But why did we produce this water?

host:Is it different after entering the industrial process?

Zhong Shanshan:No, because when you first produced this water, you were ignorant. I didn't have any knowledge about water. But when I arrived in Europe, I hardly saw any purified water. In the United States, there was a little purified water, but in Japan, it was all natural water, not a single bottle of purified water.

host:Did you feel you had done something wrong at that time?

Zhong Shanshan:At that time, I thought I knew about this water, and I also read a lot of information. From 1996 when I started making water to 2000 when the second factory was built, my knowledge system changed in the four years between then. I knew that the minerals in water are good for the human body if they are taken in for a long time. Then there is a paragraph from the American Heart Association, which I memorized at that time, that the TDS (total dissolved solids) content in water is inversely proportional to the incidence of cardiovascular diseases. That is, if you are an older person, try to drink less water without minerals, or don’t drink it. But if you are a child, or a young person nowadays, I don’t care what water you drink. At that time, I thought, why? I want to reflect on my mistakes. If I was wrong, then my mistake at that time was a rough decision. I thought, if this water is for my parents or children to drink, I will definitely not produce this water.

Then at that time I announced that I would stop producing purified water and choose natural water. If it weren’t for this year’s online controversy, I might never have produced this water.

host:So what is the relationship between the two?

Zhong Shanshan:Look at this current online controversy, people are saying that your “Nongfu Spring is a little sweet” has deceived me for twenty years, and has deceived me my whole life. Some people are saying that you are not sweet at all, how can you be sweet at all.

So this is the reverse stimulation from some people who don't know the truth. I think that my mistake is that I deprived consumers of the right to choose. Since you want to choose, I will give you the opportunity again. However, many people in our company don't understand why you do this?

I launched this water this year (2024), and I still tell everyone that if you like it a little sweet and you like the taste, drink this, and if you want to be healthy, drink this. Many people who make tea do not choose purified water, they choose natural water. Why do they choose natural water? The minerals in the water and the extracts in the tea are compatible. So there is another saying, tea knows whether the water is good or not and whether it is compatible.I was wrong, I give the choice back to everyone。

host:Such controversies are not uncommon for you, including our century dispute in 2000 and our "standard gate" incident in 2013. Are you the only controversial person? Why are there always so many controversies surrounding you?

Zhong Shanshan:If a person is one step ahead, he may be the best; if he is two steps ahead, he will be controversial; if he is three steps ahead, he will be criticized.

host:You see, if you are an entrepreneur without traffic, the public won’t pay much attention to the strategic choices you make.

Zhong Shanshan:yes.

host:Yes, this is also one of the benefits of traffic, at least it attracts some attention.

Zhong Shanshan:At the beginning, I said that traffic is a neutral word. No matter what content you put in it, if it is good, it will show good, and if it is evil, it will radiate evil. However, when people control this traffic, it is given commerciality. Once traffic is given commerciality, it must have commercial purposes. The transformation of commercial purposes from evil to good is regulated by law. If there is no law to regulate business, it is like putting rotten meat in sausages. The United States has done this before, so traffic itself is not commercial. But if it is commercial, it must be restricted by law.

“Nongfu Spring will always belong to China”

The first quality of a successor is "no hesitation"

host:We have talked about Mr. Zhong’s business operations for such a long time. One day we will need to face the issue of succession. Do you have someone in mind now?

Zhong Shanshan:The ideal person is a vague concept. There are two types of successors for an enterprise. One is at the enterprise level, which is the cultural inheritance, system inheritance, and value inheritance. About 20 years ago, we determined our values, which are to create profits, educate people, and benefit the world. We attach great importance to system design. System innovation or system inheritance must be placed before ownership inheritance.

host:First place.

Zhong Shanshan:Institutional inheritance is more important than ownership inheritance, and many people do not distinguish between the two. Institutional inheritance and cultural inheritance are important issues for an enterprise to prosper.

host:This is also what you most hope to pass on to your successor.

Zhong Shanshan:Yes, because this inheritance can have no blood relationship with you, which is the most important thing. The second is your ownership inheritance.

host:I heard that there is a saying in the market,It is said that Nongfu Spring may be passed down to the second generation of Americans, and it may no longer be a Chinese company in the future. Is this true?

Zhong Shanshan: I believe that Nongfu Spring will always be an excellent Chinese company. I repeat. Nongfu Spring will always belong to China., so the equity structure of Nongfu Spring is very simple. Nongfu Spring does not have any island companies, so its value chain is very short and its equity structure is very simple. I would not have failed to consider this matter at the beginning. I must have considered the most important ownership issue very clearly.

host:Is it close to 100% clear now?

Zhong Shanshan:Not clear.

host:Still a blurry picture.

Zhong Shanshan:No, it can't be clear because it's a convention.

host:I don't know clearly how I will know when it's my turn to take over. I need to make some preparations.

Zhong Shanshan:Yes, we cannot prepare, because this is a big company, and all big companies want to keep this body in a competitive stage forever,It's kept secret, everyone thinks I have a chance。

host:Under what circumstances will this mystery be revealed and shown to the public?

Zhong Shanshan:I think their abilities make me look like I can rest assured and I can hand over the baton.

host:Let’s take a reverse example. A successor may not lead the business to prosperity as you wish, but may lead the business to decline.

Zhong Shanshan: The worst quality of a successor is hesitation。

Discuss but not decide, be indecisive. This is the bottom line quality, why? Even if it is a wrong decision, you must make a decision quickly. In fact, sometimes you need to make a decision slowly, sometimes you need to make a decision quickly, but you must have a decision. I think the successor first needs to be kind and smart enough. Then he should be altruistic, innovative, not (conservative), and dare to break the rules. So the vitality of the enterprise lies in his courage. So these requirements of mine are very high, but they can be accomplished by a group.

host:I talked so much with Mr. Zhong on the show today, and it all started with the labels that people put on him. What I especially want to ask Mr. Zhong today is, when you are faced with so many labels, which label do you most want to tear off?

Zhong Shanshan:I think since he has labeled you, there must be a reason behind it. You should digest it slowly and don't tear it off.

host:This answer was a bit unexpected to me. If we were to give ourselves a label, what would Zhong Shanshan equal?

Zhong Shanshan:I wish I were an idealist.

Zhong Shanshan:I think I appreciate this. Cervantes, this writer, has another nickname which is the ideal madman. I think this ideal is very rare for us, especially for ideal madmen. So I bought this thing and put it here. Many people told me that you can't put a sword in the office, but I said that I should put my sword there. It is the sword of ideals.

host:I even kind of hope that you're an idealistic lunatic.

Zhong Shanshan:Idealistic lunatics can't do it. It really requires a certain state of mind. Idealistic lunatics don't consider, they don't consider themselves at all. This idealistic lunatic has a state of mind, and that is a very high state of mind, which I cannot reach at present.

host:I believe you will achieve it.

Editor|Duan Lian Yi Qijiang

Proofreading|Lu Xiangyong

Daily Economic News is compiled from CCTV's "Dialogue" column

Daily Economic News