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if one partner is responsible for taking care of the children at home full-time, does the other party need to pay labor remuneration?

more than six years ago, mao li, a post-85s female writer from shanghai and the owner of the public account "lunch with mao li", received a copyright fee of over one million yuan for her work. since then, she and her husband xiao chen have started a family role-swapping experiment:the wife becomes the breadwinner, and the husband quits his job and goes home to pick up the children, help them with their homework, and cook for the family.

on the 1st of every month, mao li would give her husband xiao chen a "salary" of 20,000 yuan, just like a company hires employees and assigns them work tasks. in this family, the boss is the wife and the only employee is her husband.

at the beginning of paying for a partner, mao li's choice was mired in huge controversy. parents and peers of both parties were puzzled. "it's a father's duty to take care of children, why should he be paid?" "it's better to hire a professional nanny and tutor than to spend 20,000 yuan to hire a husband." "wouldn't it be better to save this money and put it in the bank to earn interest?"

a photo of the maori family, provided by the interviewee

mao li was not disturbed by these voices and still employed her husband. as this family role-swap experiment is about to enter its seventh year, mao li believes that if the economy allows, paying a salary to the full-time partner at home can not only recognize the other party's labor value, but also reduce possible friction within the family.

her and her husband's experience was adapted into the tv series "young couple".what did they, the prototypes of the story, experience? what enlightenment can this new family division of labor model give to ordinary chinese couples?

we contacted mao li on a sunny summer afternoon. she described herself and her husband as "two donkeys pulling a mill together." no matter how the division of labor changes, the goal is to make their small family better.

the following is organized based on her narration.

raising a child was too tiring, which was the main reason why i asked xiao chen to quit her job and go home.no one told me that raising a child would take so much energy.that was in 2013. unlike today when girls have a thorough understanding of the pain of childbirth, the books, movies, tv shows, and the internet at that time all conveyed a childbirth atmosphere full of joy and satisfaction, such as the smiles of babies and the joyful expressions of the whole family.

after giving birth, the actual feelings were completely different. the first feeling was that the pressure of motherhood was too great. i had to write during the day and breastfeed and coax my child to sleep at night, almost 24 hours a day. at that time, xiao chen was sent to work in india and only came back once a month, each time for one to two weeks.

a photo of a maori child just after birth, provided by the interviewee

in the first month after the birth of the child, xiao chen participated in childcare at home, but due to work reasons, he was not at home for a long time, so he did not understand my complaints. "human reproduction has been like this for everyone, why do you complain so much?"

i explained to him that taking care of children is really tiring. "if there is a chance, we must switch roles. you should take care of the children at home. what do you think?"

in 2017, i sold the copyright of one of my novels. i immediately felt a sense of prosperity and joy. i felt that the opportunity to fulfill my promise had come! i calculated that with xiao chen's original salary of 20,000 after tax, the royalties would be enough for me to hire him home for 3-5 years. his income used to be a very important part of the family income, but as my income increased, it became less important.

i formally suggested that xiao chen resign and tempted him with the offer of "paying him a salary". his job content would be to take care of the children and do housework, and the salary would be based on his income from his previous job.

when xiao chen heard this, his first reaction was to ask: how much money did you earn?

to dispel his concerns, i revealed a little about the copyright income. my attitude was very firm, because i really don't like that kind of marriage status, where you are married in name only but your husband's existence is in name only. if xiao chen is unwilling to resign, i will also file for divorce.

between losing his job or losing his family, he chose the former.

on the contrary, people around him didn’t understand. my parents thought, “we can help you take care of the children, why does xiao chen have to resign?” xiao chen’s parents were also very opposed, worried that once he returned home, it would be difficult for him to return to the workplace.

someone advised me to put the money in the bank to earn interest. the income from self-employment is unstable. if i can't make money in the future, i can withdraw it at any time. a friend helped me do the math and found that 20,000 yuan a month can be used to hire a nanny, a tutor, and even a good part-time worker. she asked, "what can your husband do if you spend 20,000 yuan a month to get him home?"

xiao chen and his son aiwen, picture provided by the interviewee

but i like to try new things, and my work in self-media is getting busier and busier. every day i am thinking about what to write next. my parents can help me with raising children, but i have had many conflicts with them because of the children, and i am very anxious.

i am a typical i person. if this money is used to hire a live-in nanny or tutor, i will feel that my private space is being invaded. before the nanny or part-time worker comes to my house, i need to prepare myself mentally in advance, and i may even secretly clean the house myself.

later, when i had my second child, i tried to hire a confinement nanny. the confinement nanny was very helpful to me and made my life very easy during that time. however, this relaxing time was accompanied by internal friction: should i bring her things when i go out? should i take her with me when i travel? unconsciously, the physical fatigue was relieved, but my psychological burden became heavier.

xiao chen's back, picture provided by the interviewee

xiao chen is the best fit for this roleafter all, i know him well. he can take care of the kids and do housework, and he can help me block out the interference from strangers. the reason why i give him a "salary" is that if i don't pay him, when xiao chen is busy cooking and taking care of the kids, he will inevitably get angry. most family conflicts arise in this way.

with this money, i can feel more justified in ordering him to do work.and he has financial freedom, and can save the money as start-up capital for a new business in a few years...but i didn't expect that he would invest all the money in the fund. it shows that what my mother said is true, that men should not have too much money.

when he just resigned and returned home, xiao chen immersed himself in his new role. he would spend the whole lunch hour washing the rice cooker in the kitchen, converted the utility room into a children's room, and actively made study and life plans for his son alvin.

we have introduced an efficient way of working——stamp system, quantifying all the children’s behaviors into stamps. for each word they recognize, they get a stamp; if they eat fast, they can get ten stamps... stamps will also be deducted if they are disobedient or cry loudly. when a hundred stamps are collected, they can be exchanged for a prize. the stamp system once made xiao chen’s son a "slave".

the “stamp system” is being implemented. the picture is provided by the interviewee.

when it comes to parenting, there are different kpis at different stages.at that time, xiao chen's biggest kpi was "kindergarten to primary school", so that the child could enter an ideal primary school. aiwen was a high-needs child (although xiao chen disagreed with this), usually shy and very clingy, so clingy that if you put him down, he would suspect that you were going to abandon him. i was worried that he would not be able to cope with the kindergarten to primary school interview.

xiao chen successfully completed this kpi and helped the child change from a shy person to a lively and cheerful one. although alvin did not go to a famous school in the end, he was admitted to a pretty good elementary school.

in our neighborhood, most families have their grandmothers taking care of their children. xiao chen often stands among a group of grandmothers to play with their children, which has become his biggest challenge after entering into his new role.

the grandmothers thought that "men's way of raising children is very rough." when xiao chen was teaching ivan to ride a bike, ivan, wearing a full set of protective gear, fell forward and backward on the ground, and finally fell headfirst into the green belt. the grandmothers in the community cried out in distress, "ouch, the child fell down." xiao chen did not move at all, "it's okay, he will stand up by himself."

xiao chen rides a bicycle with aiwen, the picture is provided by the interviewee

the grandmothers couldn't even bear to watch any longer and took their children home.

but after a few days, alvin did learn to ride a bike.

the older generation generally believes that men are not good at raising children.men are more suitable to take care of childrenafter xiao chen participated in childcare, i found that there are big differences between men and women in their childcare concepts. women are naturally anxious about childcare and are prone to internal friction. when their children cannot recite tang poems at the age of 3, many mothers begin to worry that their children will not be able to find a job in 20 or 30 years. men rarely worry about things that have not happened. for them, if their children do not do well in school, they can just send them to cram school.

xiao chen also joined the "full-time dad alliance", where several full-time dads would go out to meet up from time to time. if it was a gathering of mothers, they might first talk about each other's children, and then scold their husbands. when dads get together, they like to talk about vacations and playing football, and rarely talk about family and children.

"dads don't know how to take care of children" is isolating men from parenting

a friend once asked me, if i were dating a very rich husband, would i be willing to stay at home full-time?

i thought about it and shook my head. being a full-time mother is a very traditional profession. there are too many great full-time mothers, and many of them get up at 5 a.m. to make breakfast for their children. but no matter how hard full-time mothers try, they will unconsciously fall into comparisons with their predecessors. it is an overly inward-looking track.

full-time mothers are both difficult and challenging, stills from "our marriage"

being a stay-at-home dad is a relatively new profession. as long as a man is willing to participate in childcare and take good care of the children, he can easily be praised as "a great dad."

after exchanging roles, we jumped out of the traditional road and took a different route, and found that the scenery on both sides was quite different.

xiao chen became the "homemaker" and i became the "breadwinner". in recent years, there have been many people who think "it's not easy for a woman to support a family of four". people assume that those who work outside to earn money to support the family have the hardest time. in fact, after i actually made money, i found that"it's a burden to support a family" is a pure lie told by men.

more and more women are getting well paid through work, proving that we have the ability to do things without relying on anyone.for me, being able to support my family through work is a kind of recognition, which makes me not have to be afraid of divorce, and even if i divorce, i won’t suffer too much loss.

after my son successfully entered primary school, xiao chen seemed to have nothing to do for a while, and i began to wonder if he was a little idle?

i have the idea of ​​having a second child again.

when xiao chen returned home, ivan was already 4 or 5 years old, and the most troublesome infant and toddler period had passed. he always complained that some of ivan's bad habits were caused by being spoiled by his elders when he was a child. i think he needs to experience the process of taking care of a baby and understand what it feels like.

the birth of our daughter is also the biggest change in our lives in recent years.my daughter is a sleep slacker, and white noise is a great way to lull babies to sleep. so, this kind of scene often happens at home:

my daughter was lying in the stroller. xiao chen pushed the stroller and used a spatula to create all kinds of white noise, shaking the body of the stroller in circles, like a donkey pulling a mill. after all the hardships, my daughter still didn't fall asleep. i teased xiao chen, "now you know how difficult it is to take care of a baby."

taking care of two children alone, xiao chen is visibly busy. in the morning, he has to get up to send the eldest child to school and prepare breakfast for the second child. when he comes back, he also has to prepare lunch and dinner for me and pick up the children from school in the afternoon.

in the past, he was a “talkative” person, warm-hearted but not talkative. in the past few years since he returned to his family, he has become more and more talkative, sharing with me every day “where did i take my son today” and “what happened to my daughter”.

the truth is, we all change without even realizing it.as the one who doesn't do housework and doesn't take care of the children much, i began to look at him with a critical eye and felt that he could do a better job in educating the children.

when tutoring ivan, xiao chen tends to yell at him. i wonder if he is not patient enough. i always emphasize to him that the best attitude to teach is "gentle firmness". you can say no to your child, but don't be so fierce.

whenever this happens, xiao chen would explain aggrievedly, "i am also a human being, and as a human being i have a temper."

xiao chen's daily life as a full-time dad, source: xiao chen's weibo

when i posted these daily trivia online, many netizens also felt sorry for xiao chen. they regarded xiao chen as a "sister" and thought that xiao chen had a hard time as a full-time dad, but i was still criticizing him, like a "dad" in a traditional family who stood by and watched, unable to see the situation of full-time partners.

as a result, people often quote that famous line from a tv series and movie in the comment section of xiao chen's and my weibo:

"see? put a man in a woman's place and he becomes a woman."

but i always felt that xiao chen was not that wronged. it was difficult for people to criticize me for being like a traditional man from a gender perspective. after all, i am a woman and i suffered the same pain of childbirth. i breastfed each child for two years, a total of four years. based on this alone, i don't think i am wrong.

for children, whether it is the father who takes care of the family more or the mother who takes care of the family more, their feelings are not very different. maybe they will have to wait until they are older before they can think about this matter for themselves.

someone once asked me: if you let your husband be a full-time dad, aren't you afraid that your son will also become a full-time dad in the future? i answered: "that's good, it means that he sees his wife's dedication and that his wife has the ability to do so."

from the time xiao chen resigned in 2018 to today, this family division of labor exchange experiment is slowly entering its seventh year.

according to my initial expectations, i thought xiao chen would only be a full-time dad for three to five years. later, because he had his second child and his daughter went to kindergarten this year, it has continued until now.

in the past few years, the overall environment was fine and i didn’t feel anything. later, i realized that a spouse not working is one of the “three deadly things of the middle class.” i once optimistically promised xiao chen that when he was no longer a full-time dad in the future, i would send him to study for an mba and try to get him back to the workplace.

mao li wrote a book about his life after he and xiao chen exchanged roles

"stay-at-home dad: a shanghai family's role-swapping experiment"

when we made this plan, we didn't consider the issue of age at all.

xiao chen was born in 1984. if he goes to study for an mba, he will be in his forties. which company would want an employee in his forties who has not worked for more than six or seven years?

but then i thought about it and felt that it was still necessary to let xiao chen go out to study. studying might not help xiao chen find a job, but at least it could broaden his way of thinking. if he studied "child psychology", he could also contribute to the family.

on the other hand, we used to live in shanghai, where people are very particular about refinement and decency, which makes me anxious. as a woman who is almost 40 years old, should i dress myself up exquisitely every day? and how can my children receive a better (less curly) education?

in the past, we pursued elite education and believed that parents should devote a lot of energy to their children's academic performance.during the three years of the epidemic, many of my plans came to an abrupt end, and i suddenly felt that all plans were meaningless.most of my friends no longer pursue "success for both adults and children". they have become much gentler and tend to enjoy family life.

can we live without plans in the future? last year, xiao chen and i decided to live in singapore on a whim and let xiao chen go to school. we lived in singapore for a year. many people thought we were short on education. in fact, my children and i went out to watch birds and hike every weekend. we didn’t have any tutoring at all.

ivan and his sister are playing at the beach. photo provided by the interviewee

others may think that i am working, getting married, having children, and my life plans are being fulfilled step by step. in fact, these things happened very accidentally. nowadays, it is popular to classify people into j people and p people. j people are people with strong plans, and p people are people with no plans. xiao chen and i are both p people. we will do whatever we think of.

in recent years, my parents' views on xiao chen's return home have changed a lot. my mother often praises him to outsiders, "my son-in-law can do everything, he is good at taking care of children and doing housework." i used to be an only child and was taken care of by my parents. when my parents see that xiao chen can also take care of the family, they feel more relaxed.

with more and more elite women, i see more and more cases of "women working outside and men working inside" around me.it is impossible for both husband and wife to be career-oriented in a family. there are many women who have very good conditions. when they want to start a family but find it difficult to give up their work, can they find a role similar to "good wife" to make us less hard?

there are many men in the world who are not very good at work and do not have a strong sense of career, but are good at taking care of the family.role swapping may provide them with a new idea, allowing the husband to take care of household chores while the wife continues to shine in the workplace.

photos from the maori trip, provided by the interviewee

someone once asked me, "will the income gap affect your relationship with xiao chen?" people who have such doubts may not consider the family as a whole.no matter how our division of roles changes, xiao chen and i have the same goal - to run this small home better and provide a better environment for the children.

the people who actually do the work at home often have more say. when you find that if the other person gets angry and stops working, the originally orderly life will come to a sudden halt, you will discuss everything with the other person. there is no such thing as who is stronger or weaker. it is more like a process of constant adjustment and running-in.

i often describe us as two donkeys pulling a mill together.: i would be unhappy if i saw him slacking off, because it meant i would have more work to do; if xiao chen went out to work, i might not be able to write well, and my family life would collapse, so i was willing to continue paying him his "salary".

a family is a mutual support between two people. someone contributes money, someone contributes labor, regardless of gender, or who wins or loses.