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note: on august 31, 2024, jeffrey sachs, professor of economics at columbia university, was interviewed by tucker carlson, a famous american right-wing media person, and talked about many international issues, including russia and ukraine, palestine and israel and iran, and china (especially the taiwan issue). the reason why this interview is very noteworthy is that it is a unique "meeting" of the american progressive left and the populist right on a media platform with huge traffic (tucker carlson). two different political representatives came together, with different starting points and value positions, to reflect and criticize the us military and foreign policy and the "ideology of the deep government". china is one of the important topics. jeffrey sachs used this platform to provide american listeners with a closer perspective on china. the following are the key points and comments of the interview.

1. tucker carlson: an opinion leader of the populist right/maga, who also has a significant influence on trump.tucker carlson is not an ordinary media person, but an important opinion leader of the american populist right wing/maga. he can discover, guide, and influence agendas, narratives, and opinions. he can reach the maga base and has a direct influence on trump and his entourage (maga upper echelons). his opinions and views can often grasp the spiritual core, psychology, and emotions of maga, and they echo, confirm, influence, and circulate with trump, and eventually transform into the policies of the populist right wing/maga republican party, ultimately affecting the political trend of the united states.

2. populist right wing/maga: suspicious of american elite politicians, disgusted with interfering in the affairs of other countries, and believe in "isolationism":an extremely important position of the populist right-wing/republican maga is that the politicians, elites, diplomatic, military, intelligence officials and related "deep state"/bureaucratic system in washington, d.c., have been working together with the military-industrial complex and big companies and capital for many years. they are not doing their jobs, not caring about the lives of ordinary people at home, and are always worried about how to create conflicts and start wars abroad, and are willing to lead the united states down the wrong path (world war iii and nuclear war). as a characteristic american populist ideology, it also includes deep-rooted distrust and hostility towards the government. specifically, maga opposes the wars that the united states has launched in foreign countries over the years, and opposes the united states' excessive assistance to ukraine in the russia-ukraine war. it advocates "isolationism", that is, it hopes that politicians will put their attention back to the united states and not continue to waste money and resources overseas. tucker carlson highly recognizes this view and is also the main disseminator of this view. to a certain extent, it has helped influence and shape trump/maga's diplomatic thinking. in february of this year, tucker carlson went to moscow to interview putin in order to provide a platform for putin to directly output russian views.

3. the populist right/maga and tucker carlson’s exploitation of progressive left views.tucker carlson invited jeffrey sachs not because jeffrey sachs and maga share the same political views on various issues, but because they have an intersection on the issue of us military diplomacy. jeffrey sachs is a typical progressive leftist who criticizes neoliberal economics, supports global development and poverty alleviation (eliminating economic inequality), pays attention to sustainable development and climate change, and pays attention to global health care and sanitation. on international issues, he supports global governance and multilateralism, and opposes the hegemony of the united states through military, diplomatic, and economic means. jeffrey sachs often criticizes us foreign policy outspokenly in public and helps provide perspectives from russia and china (in the united states, he is a rare person who dares to "speak for china" publicly). because of this, he is often described by opponents as a "mouthpiece" for moscow and beijing. in the political spectrum of international issues, jeffrey sachs belongs to the typical left wing, and has become more and more "left" in recent years. in criticizing us hegemony, he has already been a bit like noam chomsky.

4. the irreconcilable "meeting" of the progressive left and the populist right:so this strange scene appeared: a progressive left-wing public intellectual came to the platform of a populist right-wing/maga opinion leader, and the two sang the same tune, publicly criticizing the us military and foreign policy, washington politicians and elites, "deep state ideology" and big business and capital. although the populist right and the progressive left have different starting points, different value positions, different underlying logic, and can even be said to be "irreconcilable", their diagnosis and conclusions on the us military and foreign policy are consistent. as a result, the two factions "joined forces" on tucker carlson's platform.

5. the left and right wings use each other, each takes what they need, and “saves the country in a roundabout way.”jeffrey sachs and tucker carlson each got what they needed from the "meeting": as a progressive leftist, jeffrey sachs hopes to use tucker carlson's platform to export his criticism of us foreign policy and transform populist right-wing listeners into a political force that opposes us hegemony; as a populist rightist, tucker carlson hopes to use jeffrey sachs's rich knowledge and unique perspective to provide more ammunition for washington elites and the "deep state" to "lead the united states down the wrong path", and to provide more basis for maga to oppose establishment elite politics and seek isolationism in military diplomacy. it should be said that both of them are achieving their own goals.

6. jeffrey sachs took the initiative to bring up the china issue.during the interview, tucker carlson was most familiar with and most wanted to talk about ukraine/russia, the middle east/iran, etc., but it can be seen that he was not so familiar with china; jeffrey sachs talked a lot about ukraine, the middle east and the history of american diplomacy (from the cold war to the cia), but secretly he wanted to talk about china more, because he knew very well that from a historical perspective, ukraine was just an episode, and the biggest problem for the united states in the next few decades was how to deal with its relationship with china. china's position on the agenda is actually far more important than russia, ukraine, israel, iran, etc. his strategy is to use ukraine to talk about china. since the populist right wing/maga can already see the essence of the russia-ukraine issue, it should not be difficult to see the essence of the taiwan issue and sino-us relations.

7.jeffrey sachs: the taiwan issue has finally been made clear.during the interview, jeffrey sachs gave some "popular science" introductions on china and taiwan issues. the content was not long, but the information was very accurate and clear.

1) introduced that china was in a civil war before 1949, the kuomintang was defeated, and the remaining forces fled to taiwan

2) both sides of the taiwan strait (beijing and taipei) believe that there is only "one china", that taiwan is part of china, and that they are that "china"

3) the united states and mainland china established diplomatic relations. the basis of the diplomatic relations between the two countries is "one china", that is, taiwan is part of "china", and "china" is the "people's republic of china"

4) the united states sees that the systems of mainland china and taiwan are different and hopes that there will be no military conflict between the two sides and that the problem will be resolved peacefully

5) in 1982, the united states issued a joint communiqué with the mainland government, stating that it would not sell weapons to taiwan for a long time, and would gradually reduce and terminate the sale.

6) but in reality, the united states is "opportunistic" and hopes to expand its options through "strategic ambiguity"

7) china is worried about the us trying to split china (mainland and taiwan), which has been a nightmare for the past 150 years.

8) in the united states, there is indeed a group of people who are instigating and inciting taiwan's secession and independence, hoping to provoke conflict. this is the interests of many departments, fixed thinking, and "deep state ideology"

9) if the us continues to follow this logic, it will eventually lead to military conflict and a repeat of the ukraine incident (the us populist right wing was deeply moved by this). he also advised taiwanese people not to follow ukraine's path and not to listen to the instigation of the americans.

10) believe that there is no fundamental conflict between the united states and china and that they can live in peace

11) china has gone through 150 years of difficult history, and now hopes to catch up, develop the economy, and make up for the lost time. the chinese are very smart and hardworking, and the development direction is correct. they have no intention of dominating the world.

12) believe that china is a great and brilliant civilization with a lot to share with the united states. americans should visit china more often, view china with a normal mind, and get along with china.

13) regarding the chip/tsmc issue, i believe that as long as the united states does not instigate a war, there will be no problem with the chip supply chain. mainland china will not take military action against taiwan. i also believe that the us technology sanctions on china are useless. china will definitely find ways to bypass the sanctions and eventually develop its own technology through innovation.

14) my advice to trump/vance (or any new president) is: don’t repeat the mistakes of the russia-ukraine issue on the taiwan issue/china issue. use your understanding of the ukraine issue to understand the china issue.

8. jeffrey sachs’ “china story”: a “fresh and new” perspectivetucker carlson listened carefully to jeffrey sachs's statement without interrupting or questioning. it can be seen that, like most americans, this part of the content is relatively unfamiliar to him. it is the first time he has heard of it, and he should find it very interesting ("moment of truth"). jeffrey sachs' output should be said to be relatively effective. he grasped the sensitive points and interests of tucker carlson (and maga audiences), and used the china issue to influence and shape their perspectives, attitudes, views, judgments and public opinion tendencies on the us military, diplomacy and international policies.

9. the “preciousness” of speaking for china in the united states and its potential impact on trump and maga’s baseit should be said that in today's environment, it is very rare to be able to express, share and discuss the chinese perspective so bluntly on a public platform in the united states, and it appears on the most influential maga platform like tucker carlson. this kind of view, which points upward to the trump/republican maga upper echelons and downward to the civilian maga base (about half of the american people), provides them with a completely different perspective on china from the washington elite. it can be said that on the issue of china, as long as it can have a certain influence on tucker carlson personally and change his views, it is likely to eventually affect trump and the maga base's views on china.

10. the peculiar function of the “china issue” in american politics (inside and outside washington).the function of the "china issue" is also very strange. in washington, the elites/establishment politicians of both parties are mortal enemies. the only issue they can reach a consensus on is china, and they practice "team building" by "beating up pandas"; outside washington, the progressive left and the populist right are also mortal enemies. the progressive left is called socialism/communism, and the populist right is called fascism. the left and right can actually reach a consensus on the china issue, that is, by reflecting on the us taiwan policy, criticizing the washington elites for "leading the us on the wrong path." this is indeed a strange sight.

11. the populist right/maga ultimately considers american interests.it should be pointed out that the republican party/the populist right wing/maga all put american interests first (america first), and only care about the interests of the united states. therefore, they are not china's "friends", have no special interest in china, do not have a natural "good impression" of china, and will not "empathize" with china right away. they have no intention of studying and understanding china. moreover, on economic issues, they are likely to believe that china is a huge challenge to the united states, "stealing american jobs", and the united states must strengthen its economic competition with china. ultimately, they care about the interests of the united states and their own interests. for them, the measurement of china's value depends entirely on its impact on american interests and the interests of the maga base. the reason why they are willing to spend some time listening to things about china is that they are extremely suspicious, disgusted, and hostile to the military and diplomatic policies of the american political elites, and are worried that washington is "holding back all kinds of bad things" and will eventually replicate the russia-ukraine conflict in the taiwan strait, and even trigger world war iii and a nuclear war.

12. traditional american bipartisan political elites are disdainful of jeffrey sachs.how would the traditional washington bipartisan elites view jeffrey sachs' speech? naturally, they were furious and said that jeffrey sachs was a mouthpiece for beijing and moscow. but they could not prevent these views and content from entering the vision of half of the american people through tucker carlson for the first time - just as they could not influence the views of more than half of the american people on the russia-ukraine conflict through the mainstream media.

13. the populist right/maga republicans are more likely to absorb jeffrey sachs’ ideas and translate them into specific policies.with the election approaching, let’s compare the democratic party (biden-harris-waltz) and the maga republican party (trump-vance). the current democratic candidates and staff are closer to the washington elite/establishment/"deep state" and the military-industrial complex, and hold the same views on russia and china as the mainstream in washington. in contrast, trump's maga republican party, which has emerged as an anti-establishment force, must be more receptive to the views of jeffrey sachs/tucker carlson. in other words: trump's maga republican party is more likely to believe from top to bottom that the united states should not provoke disputes with china over the taiwan strait issue. once again, this is not because they are friends of china, not because they have any special affection for china, but purely because they hope to change the united states' consistent military and diplomatic policy, lay down their arms, pursue isolationism abroad, and return their attention to the united states, starting with the southern border to solve domestic problems in the united states.

14.the reference value of jeffrey sachs’ “china story”.finally, i personally think that jeffrey sachs' speech is very helpful, and he explained the issue clearly and concisely. you can refer to his statement and use similar words, logic, and narrative to introduce the taiwan issue to americans.